Surely the focus should be on their partner?
Why are submissive males so obsessed with themselves?
- Thread starter L-u-c-y
- Start date
Because they are NOT submissive at all and that is why they ARE FOREVER OBSESSED with their own fetishes, needs and fantasies. Never listen and will never learn.
To me there seems to be a lot of reasons why it's like it, however I've been in cases where doms in my opinion don't understand what a Dom is either. But the context is relevant as well.
Personally I would indentify as an Altru-Hendoist in addition to being submissive, I enjoy doing whatever I have to do to make people I care for happy. While like most I've had desires or cravings for X or Y my main concern is my partner/Dom and their happiness. And a side note, if you're a good sub/partner you're way more likely get rewarded for being attentive to your doms feelings, but it should never be expected. It's a treat, not a birth right.
If you're looking for a lifestyle Dom/sub. Then there's a clear assigned role there. And I think naturally the conversations have to take place about what all parties want out of relationship and I'm sure if it's a healthy relationship it will develop over time, but in my view the subs role whilst inherently is to "serve" the Dom, they need to understand that it's for the betterment of the relationship and they and the relationship can continue to grow and develop together. It seems to me, a lot of people love the fantasy of subbing in a relationship, but can't comprehend 1. What a sub is, and 2. Just because they're dating a kinky person by no means means they want to express those kinks 24/7.
Additionally, having been scrolling through friends POF or Tinder messages(with them, I haven't just picked up their phone or hacked their accounts or anything) there really is a lot of guys who think it's fine to just be a massive sex pest or send dick pics instantly then get offended if they don't get a response within 2 mins they go on the offence. Or they straight up ask women in the opening message if they can be their foot slave or something. It's really creepy, rude and there's not a chance they'd do that in person. Maybe it's a similar case. I've got dates for myself on those apps purely because I treat people I talk too with respect and decency. I doubt the lack of face to face encounters helps much either because it's way harder to get punched in the face via the internet.
Personally I would indentify as an Altru-Hendoist in addition to being submissive, I enjoy doing whatever I have to do to make people I care for happy. While like most I've had desires or cravings for X or Y my main concern is my partner/Dom and their happiness. And a side note, if you're a good sub/partner you're way more likely get rewarded for being attentive to your doms feelings, but it should never be expected. It's a treat, not a birth right.
If you're looking for a lifestyle Dom/sub. Then there's a clear assigned role there. And I think naturally the conversations have to take place about what all parties want out of relationship and I'm sure if it's a healthy relationship it will develop over time, but in my view the subs role whilst inherently is to "serve" the Dom, they need to understand that it's for the betterment of the relationship and they and the relationship can continue to grow and develop together. It seems to me, a lot of people love the fantasy of subbing in a relationship, but can't comprehend 1. What a sub is, and 2. Just because they're dating a kinky person by no means means they want to express those kinks 24/7.
Additionally, having been scrolling through friends POF or Tinder messages(with them, I haven't just picked up their phone or hacked their accounts or anything) there really is a lot of guys who think it's fine to just be a massive sex pest or send dick pics instantly then get offended if they don't get a response within 2 mins they go on the offence. Or they straight up ask women in the opening message if they can be their foot slave or something. It's really creepy, rude and there's not a chance they'd do that in person. Maybe it's a similar case. I've got dates for myself on those apps purely because I treat people I talk too with respect and decency. I doubt the lack of face to face encounters helps much either because it's way harder to get punched in the face via the internet.
I think the problem lies in the definition.
Most submissive males come to it via porn, which is a set of fantasies & fetishes all designed to cater to the male. All of the imagery associated with D/s is designed to arouse men because it comes from porn, where the consumer base is almost entirely male.
None of the D/s imagery, or very little of it at least, is really about what women find attractive or want from a man.
One of the many, many things I love about you @L-u-c-y is that you don't conform to this.
Serving you is about you, 100% and all of the time, which is exactly how it should be.
I for one would not have it any other way.
Most submissive males come to it via porn, which is a set of fantasies & fetishes all designed to cater to the male. All of the imagery associated with D/s is designed to arouse men because it comes from porn, where the consumer base is almost entirely male.
None of the D/s imagery, or very little of it at least, is really about what women find attractive or want from a man.
One of the many, many things I love about you @L-u-c-y is that you don't conform to this.
Serving you is about you, 100% and all of the time, which is exactly how it should be.
I for one would not have it any other way.
I will try to rephrase the original question. Why do so many fetishists and self obsessed men pretend to be submissive?
Very few men are truly submissive by nature. It is not common. And even in the discussion of being submissive, there needs to be consideration for the fact that not every person (male or female) is submissive or dominant in all areas of life.
I have always been very submissive sexually. I hate initiating, I am focused like a laser on pleasing my wife to the point where it can be a problem (if I am not doing a good job or something just isn’t working, I take it as a personal failure). But outside the bedroom, I am not very submissive in most matters.
My wife is very nearly the opposite of me. Once she gained confidence (through our practice of chastity) she has no problem getting what she wants in bed (though she shares my hatred of initiating). She is quite submissive in most areas outside the bedroom, but is very dominant when it comes to parenting. Things MUST be her way or all hell breaks loose. My opinion doesn’t really matter with her on anything about parenting decisions.
Back to the original question. Many of the guys out there that get in sites like this or contact Dommes or professional keyholders making a big deal about being submissive have a warped idea of what being submissive is. They confuse a sexual excitement about being controlled with true submission. Someone who really is submissive is highly focused on putting the needs of the other above their own, and couldn’t imagine it being any other way. People with a sexual fascination of being controlled get restless when the excitement doesn’t meet their expectations, and then show their true selves. They are just demanding fetishists.
Very few men are truly submissive by nature. It is not common. And even in the discussion of being submissive, there needs to be consideration for the fact that not every person (male or female) is submissive or dominant in all areas of life.
I have always been very submissive sexually. I hate initiating, I am focused like a laser on pleasing my wife to the point where it can be a problem (if I am not doing a good job or something just isn’t working, I take it as a personal failure). But outside the bedroom, I am not very submissive in most matters.
My wife is very nearly the opposite of me. Once she gained confidence (through our practice of chastity) she has no problem getting what she wants in bed (though she shares my hatred of initiating). She is quite submissive in most areas outside the bedroom, but is very dominant when it comes to parenting. Things MUST be her way or all hell breaks loose. My opinion doesn’t really matter with her on anything about parenting decisions.
Back to the original question. Many of the guys out there that get in sites like this or contact Dommes or professional keyholders making a big deal about being submissive have a warped idea of what being submissive is. They confuse a sexual excitement about being controlled with true submission. Someone who really is submissive is highly focused on putting the needs of the other above their own, and couldn’t imagine it being any other way. People with a sexual fascination of being controlled get restless when the excitement doesn’t meet their expectations, and then show their true selves. They are just demanding fetishists.
Demanding fetishists who think they are submissive, yes.
I don’t have the experience but I concur with your statement. It’s my biggest fear. I had thought about making a formal inquiry but how do I NOT dissapoint her in the same fashion mentioned
above?
I also think individuals have responsibilities to be OK with themselves and not solely rely on others to provide
My submissiveness comes from a desire to receive loving attention from an authority figure. My parents and everyone who took part in raising me were all great people, don’t me wrong, but many hours of therapy have illuminated some dark areas in my childhood.
I have done things in my past which were incredibly selfish just to get into that subspace many of us crave. I have been fortunate not to ruin too many relationships or get hurt along the way, and at times I’ve found regular partners who fulfilled all of my needs as a sub. I have seen others here mention that ignoring a sub can be one of the most difficult punishments to endure, and for me it certainly is.
Forgive me if I’m going in the wrong direction
I have done things in my past which were incredibly selfish just to get into that subspace many of us crave. I have been fortunate not to ruin too many relationships or get hurt along the way, and at times I’ve found regular partners who fulfilled all of my needs as a sub. I have seen others here mention that ignoring a sub can be one of the most difficult punishments to endure, and for me it certainly is.
Forgive me if I’m going in the wrong direction
This thread is a very good example of the exceptions proving the rule. A lot of self-professed submissives going on about how submissive they've become. It's a 'chicken-or-the-egg' situation - are submissive men obsessed with themselves or are men who are obsessed with themselves identifying as submissive? Certainly the end goal is self-pleasure; either sexual or otherwise (but sexual is probably the main goal). Too many times I would hazard a guess that a lot of competing ideas get rolled up together in the mind. Chastity ultimately has little to do with submission; it's all about self-denial for later maximal sexual pleasure. Submission is about temporarily sublimating your own desires for the desires of another, up to a point (You wouldn't drink bleach for your Domme, would you?). You do so in the hope of receiving a reciprocal payoff later on. Things like bondage, abuse, etc. are also because the 'submissive' wants these things to happen on some level. The ultimate point is, "I'll do these things for you now, but later, I want a return on my investment". It's all ultimately self-serving.
And that's fine, as long as everyone understands that going in. I have to believe that anyone who says, "I'm doing this just for her" is deluding himself. Any relationship, no matter how casual or intense, is about the give and take; Only the 'submissive' male tries to hide that fact from his own awareness. In a related thread, Ms. Lucy asks why vanilla men seem to be better at courting a woman than a submissive man; a vanilla man is aware that he must work to please a woman, with the inherent understanding that there will be a payoff for him at some point. A submissive man pretends otherwise, often with a ruinous outcome. When you set your foundations in quicksand, don't be surprised when the structure falls into the mire.
And that's fine, as long as everyone understands that going in. I have to believe that anyone who says, "I'm doing this just for her" is deluding himself. Any relationship, no matter how casual or intense, is about the give and take; Only the 'submissive' male tries to hide that fact from his own awareness. In a related thread, Ms. Lucy asks why vanilla men seem to be better at courting a woman than a submissive man; a vanilla man is aware that he must work to please a woman, with the inherent understanding that there will be a payoff for him at some point. A submissive man pretends otherwise, often with a ruinous outcome. When you set your foundations in quicksand, don't be surprised when the structure falls into the mire.
I think both are true.
But also there are men who identify as submissive yet are not self-obsessed.
Just as there are self-obsessed men who do not identify as submissive.
I'm sure it's possible to do a Venn diagram to represent all of these subsets of men and how they intersect, but I never could draw those bloody things
Absolutely; there are no 'one-size-fits-all' answers. But there are probably as many subtle graduations as there are men involved in this. Nor does any particular man exhibit the same tendencies 100% of the time. Cookie-cutter stereotyping will usually lead you down a blind alley.
Thanks for pointing out this out.
This was thought provoking and hits on some great points. I would think that submissives are like cats in that You never truly know what you’re getting until you bring them home. Vanilla relationships are hard. Adding unfair kinky expectations up front can make it tougher. I read a blog the other day that basically said that being a submissive male does not mean you can’t be a Strong and confident man. I think some guys mistake “submissive” for “weak”.
Thank you!
why shouldn't you be self obsessed. Women are to about the same degree as men but about different things. Thing to remember is you are born alone and you die alone. You had better love your self because that is the only person that will be there in the end. You may have company and family to support you, but it is something you go through alone.
While I generally agree with this on a philosophical level, on a biological level we are geared to derive pleasure primarily through act of compassion and cooperation.
As far as D/S matters go, both sides are providing a service to one another and that is what drives the pleasure.
Curious how males are trying to naturally turn this thread into their own misconceptions in an attempt to protect that always fragile selfish alpha ingrained selfishness to mean they are justified in being obsessed with themselves and their own needs.
Its because unfortunately most subs aren't actually subs from what i've seen. They're fetishists that are hoping to find someone to carry out their fetishes on them. Its their feelings they're concerned about, not the welfare and desire to please an Owner.
I just don’t get that people understand that they need to be OK with themselves before attempting relationships with other people. It’s not someone else’s job to make you happy. The rules when building relationships haven’t changed. Being more self aware is never a bad thing. Self Obsession is a different beast.
Sorry if this sounded militant I read and respect all of your opinions.
Sorry if this sounded militant I read and respect all of your opinions.
If submissive men are obsessed with themselves then they're not true submissives. When I was submissive sexually to men, they did whatever they wanted with me and I accepted that as my role, no matter how humiliating. My wife controls me now and I obey her without question.
In theory it should, but first they have to be lucky enough to have a partner.
If they don't have a partner then they feel an overwhelming pressure to sell themselves. This makes them blind as all they can think about is themselves and what there fantasies are.
They have also probably misidentified themselves and they're actually switches at heart.