A paradox

[Boyzer0]

But surely trying to push something like this onto someone who isn't remotely interested is just trying to Dom from the bottom? Surely there should be a chat where you present an articulate and well thought out case for it, and why it would be beneficial to the relationship. Or if she/he is on the fence, ask them to think about it, or maybe find a few articles online for them to read and see if that might convince them to try it, but don't be too pushy about it.

If they say no, then it should be dropped, maybe they'll change their mind later, but trying to push something on someone that they have no interest in isn't fair to them.

 

[the odd tease]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Pair_of_mandarin_ducks.jpg

oh, never mind, you said "paradox"

 

[Mandynjack]

I see this often on this site...

I love my wife.

I want to make my wife happy.

I want to serve my wife.

then...

She doesn't like chastity, I want her to change to like it.

...........

Surely the simple answer is.... Male partner changes to NOT like chastity. Problem solved, wife happy

So true Mistress, but I guess jack got lucky when he met me. Not a Domme from the start, he in fact was Dom to a pretty little thing. But I guess I was drawn to him and we got together. He never tried to be my Dom, more like brought out the Domme in me. So to all males out there I would say this; worship her without all of your demands, see what transpires. Good hunting boys

 

[Absurd_Osiris]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that, in a number of cases, attempts at chastity fail when there are wives who do not support their husband emotionally. Neglecting aftercare when a sub has gone beyond the limits of what they can handle is an excellent way for a dom to ruin all the trust and adoration that has been built, and speaking from personal experience, it was the end of the FLR/chastity experiment in my house.

 

[Cuckster]

If it was something that had been discussed and agreed to by all parties beforehand and then aftercare was neglected, then you may be right.
From the thread so far I don't think that was the case here.

 

[b2please]

I suspect that men tend to be kinkier than women on average. I could be wrong.

So let's assume that a couple are both be intersted in some type of DS relationship, with her having more power.

A number of kinky things MIGHT really enhance that DS dynamic for the guy. But the woman may be ok with being totally vanilla. What to do?

Maybe they are a really awesome couple in many important ways!
Great at having fun together.
Similar values & goals in life
In love!
Great sexual chemistry.

And the guy thinks of a bunch of kinky things as potentially amplifying the DS in really fun ways:

Bondage might. (She plays with tying him up. Maybe they attend a local rope practice)
Spanking might. (They decide S he has the power to spank)
Humiliation might
Public humiliation might
Feminization might (my wife really isn't attracted to this one)
Chastity might.

Now what if ALL these are not cravings of the woman, but all are very interesting to the guy?

(I think many of us guys have experienced a version of this)

Maybe patient and gentle communication, sharing of interests, starting low key, and continuous experimentation are good for the relationship. Even if it's the guy suggesting and the woman who's dominant.

I was reading Nookie Notes on fet saying she hurts her partner BECAUSE she loves him and because of how important it is for HIM. And in this context she likes it, but is not naturally sadistic at all. The pleasure is based on HIS RESPONSE TO IT.

So, FORCING a fetish on one another is surely wrong! But sharing ideas and wanting to do some pace of experimental play is important to me. And if done well, some of these might open up new fun stuff to play with that will become treasured over time.

 

[Doczilla421]

I originally locked myself up in a cage and that night talked with my wife about it. I explained to her that I was masterbating all the time and couldnt stop and felt that this was the only way to stop it. I truly didnt want to be in chastity and still am on the fence about it. I felt it was the only way to save my marriage. I gave her the keys and told her it was totally her decision on if it stayed on or she could remove it. That was almost 8 months ago. Guess you know what she decided. She likes having me locked.

 

[steviepie]

I see this often on this site...

I love my wife.

I want to make my wife happy.

I want to serve my wife.

then...

She doesn't like chastity, I want her to change to like it.

...........

Surely the simple answer is.... Male partner changes to NOT like chastity. Problem solved, wife happy

We men can be so transparently childish...….thank you Ms. Lucy for raising awareness. (Perhaps you will open some eyes to the beauty of a true female led marriage.)

 

[b_quark]

Good to know.
Religion is fictional. Chastity is manifestly not.
Or in fact you could say chastity is manifest, religion is not.
I'll leave you to make up your own mind whether or not that is tongue in cheek.

It's funny, because I'm not a believer or fan of religion and can obviously see that it's fictional. And I am in chastity and feel that its benefits are very real. BUT even I can see that chastity, at least the chastity I'm in, is somewhat fictional, not real, and based on faith...

My wife locked me up again almost a week ago, and then she went on a trip and left me alone in the house and sexually frustrated. The feeling is extremely powerful and "real" and yet I have a nice new set of bolt cutters about 10 feet away from me right now that would free me in a heartbeat. I could also probably find a key somewhere in the house where she most likely left it for an emergency, though it's a very large house and I know not where it might be. I imagine I could probably call her and say the right words and make my release easier, less painful, less destructive.

Then again, maybe what you said was tongue in cheek after all. ;-)

 

[Cuckster]

It's funny, because I'm not a believer or fan of religion and can obviously see that it's fictional. And I am in chastity and feel that its benefits are very real. BUT even I can see that chastity, at least the chastity I'm in, is somewhat fictional, not real, and based on faith...

My wife locked me up again almost a week ago, and then she went on a trip and left me alone in the house and sexually frustrated. The feeling is extremely powerful and "real" and yet I have a nice new set of bolt cutters about 10 feet away from me right now that would free me in a heartbeat. I could also probably find a key somewhere in the house where she most likely left it for an emergency, though it's a very large house and I know not where it might be. I imagine I could probably call her and say the right words and make my release easier, less painful, less destructive.

Then again, maybe what you said was tongue in cheek after all. ;-)

Well, not entirely.
Of course you could cut off your device.
Likewise, you may be able to find the key and then hide it again afterwards.
Each of those are tangible actions involving actual physical objects.
There are no actual physical objects in religion (aside from the symbolic).
In any event, if your wife hid the keys "properly" and you wore the right device, the chances of you being able to cheat without discovery are very small.
So there is faith and trust involved for sure, but it is not pure faith and trust (if done in the right way).

 

[Moonshae]

I suspect it’s more the overwhelming bag of kinks that turns off more wives than the chastity or devices.

Unless a couple are nudists, 99% of the time, the wife would be unaware of the cage or the keys. It isn’t a big deal to remove a cage before sex or during foreplay if the device is the limit. It’s likely to seem weird if the wife is vanilla and the topic has never been discussed, but how many wives would say, “You don’t need to save up for me...go ahead and masturbate whenever you feel like it.”

I just started with a cage and wanted to ensure comfort before revealing to my wife. So far so good. I have been able to deny myself with willpower alone for a couple days before I knew we’d be having sex, so my masturbation wasn’t/isn’t causing any problems in our sex life. On top of that, my wife doesn’t care about porn...she isn’t threatened and doesn’t feel betrayed by it, so that isn’t an issue. I decided to lock up because I enjoy sex more the longer I’ve gone without an orgasm, but my willpower is only effective when I know masturbation will affect my wife’s pleasure.

Giving her the keys will mean fewer but hopefully better orgasms for me, which may also improve things for her. I can’t imagine why a woman would be opposed or turned off by this if they have a loving relationship.

 

[castmenow]

I see this often on this site...

I love my wife.

I want to make my wife happy.

I want to serve my wife.

then...

She doesn't like chastity, I want her to change to like it.

...........

Surely the simple answer is.... Male partner changes to NOT like chastity. Problem solved, wife happy

I have a paradox, not as polar as that above. I want to be locked in chastity. I introduced it to my wife over 12 months ago and it has gone well. She accepts it for short term periods of play but not long term, the longest time to date is 10 days. The paradox is that what turns her on more than anything else is to watch me orgasm or feel me orgasm inside her. As that is such a strong thing for her, I can not push for her to forgo this part of her sexuality and keep me locked long term. Therefore, we compromise and have a good time together when I am locked, she can be a merciless tease when I am caged, but at some point she wants me. Who knows if it will change slowly with time, but as the saying goes, "i'll not cut my nose off to spite my face".

 

[bondinchas]

I have a paradox, not as polar as that above. I want to be locked in chastity. I introduced it to my wife over 12 months ago and it has gone well. She accepts it for short term periods of play but not long term, the longest time to date is 10 days. The paradox is that what turns her on more than anything else is to watch me orgasm or feel me orgasm inside her. As that is such a strong thing for her, I can not push for her to forgo this part of her sexuality and keep me locked long term. Therefore, we compromise and have a good time together when I am locked, she can be a merciless tease when I am caged, but at some point she wants me. Who knows if it will change slowly with time, but as the saying goes, "i'll not cut my nose off to spite my face".

The question is, if she gets something different that satisfies her needs, would she still need what satisfied her before?

My wife also very much enjoyed having me often masturbate beside her in bed, so much so she used to often get me to do it instead of intercourse (in periods when chastity wasn't the driver). She also, while not needing it as often as me, really needed intercourse when she needed it.
Now, she gets much more work done around the house and garden by me, gets far more oral and orgasms than she ever had any sort of sex before, and she can't see any reason why she would want to unlock me. I haven't masturbated since 2017, and I've only been unlocked for 6 weeks this year during which we've had full sex a few times.

The secret is, travel together to the place where you're both happy, making it a slow and gentle journey, subtle change by subtle change, being happy with every step of the journey. That's much easier as when a limit is reached or a downside encountered, it's much less to have to backtrack and take another route. It took us more than 5 years to get to the point where chastity was more than just occasional weekend use, and another 5 years to get to where we are now, seriously understanding the benefits for both of us of long term male chastity.

 

[keyheld]

I see this often on this site...

I love my wife.

I want to make my wife happy.

I want to serve my wife.

then...

She doesn't like chastity, I want her to change to like it.

...........

Surely the simple answer is.... Male partner changes to NOT like chastity. Problem solved, wife happy

We all change preferences and tastes through our life.

Many things I disliked when I was younger I now enjoy - coffee being one of those.

Even though when offered coffee I could of gone on about not respecting my likes / dislikes I gave it another try and found my taste had chaged slightly so it’s now something I enjoy.

I’m not saying anyone should force their other half’s to be their KH, but it’s something that can and should be discussed over an extended period.

I don’t like chastity - what part of it don’t you like? Etc .....

Life is a journey we all can end up in places we never expected to be in our lives and relationships. Just because a first reaction was not what you fantasised about it shouldn’t mean you cannot discuss the original question and see if there is some common ground that not can enjoy.

 

[skD]

I see this often on this site...

I love my wife.

I want to make my wife happy.

I want to serve my wife.

then...

She doesn't like chastity, I want her to change to like it.

...........

Surely the simple answer is.... Male partner changes to NOT like chastity. Problem solved, wife happy

I have been thinking about the conclusion line...…

The challenge is that with "Man changes to not like chastity. Wife happy” removes the incentive. In courting @Domina-na-na , my behavior and temperament was influenced but the prospect of the reward (sex & physical intimacy). A married couple suffers the dynamic where that wooing declines since the sexual aspect has been secured, as it were.

Chastity ensures that the prospect of the reward (just as uncertain as getting the sex when courting) is there, and in response, my KH gets a servant.

HC

 

[Xileh]

For a minute, let’s just leave Chastity out of the discussion.

The premise has been made that if you love somebody, you don’t ask them to change.

How many people in long-term relationships can say they have never changed for their partner or asked their partner for a change? I think a successful relationship allows for these requests. In fact, I think a solid relationship that respects a heartfelt request is bound to grow in all ways possible.

What I have witnessed on several Chastity forums, are Chastity requests to a partner that I am sure were perceived as insulting. That is not evidence of respect or desiring to grow a relationship. Clearly, they are self-serving.

So, I think a hearfelt request to change a relationship can be a catalyst to strengthen the relationship, if the motive is genuine rather than presented as “Let’s Make a Deal.”

 

[filltee]

It is possible to introduce your partner very slowly to the idea of male chastity even to the point where it is her perception that it is her own idea.

You can start by introducing your partner to the idea of you not always cumming when you make love if you explain that you heard it can make you more appreciative of her and want her more and slowly add more. it makes you feel that you demonstrating that you don't just want sex for your own sake. Of course you will have needed to start doing tons more for her and/or around the house etc You can explaing that the extra energy you feel you have since you don't cum so often you want to burn off and do more for her. ... use your imagination you know what will sound the more credible to her.

Its no lie, you are IMHO not dong anything wrong as long as she is reassured about why you don't want to cum as often and that you are not cheating on her.

If she she shows signs of liking this 'new you' then work on that ..you know your partner and what may turn on more lights.

Then wait for an opening in a conversation she has started to mention male chastity in some way and how you'd like.... and the rest is up to you.

Its all above board no deception a little topping from the bottom perhaps in he sense you are being slightly manipulative but not I don't think in a bad way. Something you could perhaps when / if she takes the reins later apologise for.

If its a FLR you are looking for or just the buzz of serving your partner then your behaviour should also reflect how that too could be to her advantage.

Where you can take it after that is between you both ...unless perhaps she really takes the reins., then it would be just up to her.

In this way you could get to have the pleasure of serving your partner whilst making her happy and perhaps learn how that in itself could become its own reward.

Your target is to realise your ambition but be very aware about what you are potentially starting.

BCWYWF is something you will hear often on CM and for good reason.

 

[Xileh]

I agree. Gentle does it.

When making love, I can last a long time. I could tell that it became a chore for her. She wanted me to finish. I decided to let it go and tell her to not worry about me finishing. We made more love than ever. I guess I was on the right track.

I felt relieved. I no longer had to perform. I just wanted her to be happy.

As time went by, we drifted into a tease and denial mode. We really started having fun. We were having more intimate moments than at any time in our relationship.

At about that time, while researching T&D, I bumped into Chastity. I thought, “No way in hell.”

But, it began to intrigue me. I spent months researching and trying to figure out how to ask her. Finally, I just did. No deals. She agreed. It became an extension of our T&D. She loves the control.

Just trust her.

In the end, she changed and I changed. And it worked because we both wanted to for each other. And, we are having so much fun. Who knows where we go from here?

 

[Happilymarriednerd]

It took me awhile to get past the topping from bottom bullshit, but once I found i just need to focus 100% on pleasing her, i found things got better than i could ever hope for .

 

[Moonshae]

For a minute, let’s just leave Chastity out of the discussion.

The premise has been made that if you love somebody, you don’t ask them to change.

How many people in long-term relationships can say they have never changed for their partner or asked their partner for a change? I think a successful relationship allows for these requests. In fact, I think a solid relationship that respects a heartfelt request is bound to grow in all ways possible.

What I have witnessed on several Chastity forums, are Chastity requests to a partner that I am sure were perceived as insulting. That is not evidence of respect or desiring to grow a relationship. Clearly, they are self-serving.

So, I think a hearfelt request to change a relationship can be a catalyst to strengthen the relationship, if the motive is genuine rather than presented as “Let’s Make a Deal.”

Every relationship has to change. People change as they age (thank goodness!), and that includes possibly changing perspectives on life issues that had seemed solid. I think what makes relationships work through those changes is when the couple communicates all along, and the change isn't sudden. It's unlikely that someone develops a new kink or habit overnight, so discussing with the partner at the beginning of the journey will help the other partner adjust quicker. As has been said in other threads, partners sometimes react negatively when overwhelmed with info by an inspired partner who has done a lot of research. If the surprised partner had been included earlier in the process, it would have come as less of a shock. Consider "Hey, I want to be locked up in a chastity cage for the rest of my life, here are the keys; you decide when I can be let out, and here are a bunch of websites to read so you can understand." vs "Hey, I just read something about male chastity devices and they seem interesting. Let's do some research and see if it's something we can incorporate into our lives."

 

[bondinchas]

We all change as we progress through life, and in some ways it's not good to try not to change, otherwise stagnation and boredom may develop, if not by both, then by one partner in a relationship.

Is changing your partner part of continual growth and exploration, or is it manipulative?
That depends on the motives and desires of both of you, and the respect you have for the other's limits.

I can give a good recent example...

My lovely wife had a very conservative and quiet upbringing, it will be no surprise to learn that she has never looked at pornography, or has ever wanted to.
I thought it might be fun if we could look at some things online together occasionally, so I have set about making changes. One evening about a month ago we fancied watching a film on TV but there was nothing we wanted to watch currently on.
"How about we have a 'porn night' ?" I asked her with a grin, making it a obvious joke.
"What! Don't be silly" she said with a look of "how could I?" and no more was said.
A couple of weeks later a similar thing happened.

Then last week, we were talking about some cooking she was planning to do (the main ingredient was chocolate) and I said "I wonder if anyone has ever made chocolate knickers?". "Could be fun, but difficult making them stay on, they'd melt". She laughed and smiled and then we moved back to the cooking.

Last night we were sat waiting for our favourite news program to start on TV, there was about 20 minutes to go so she decided to switch her laptop on and check her emails. I said "while we're waiting we could have that porn night, look up how they make chocolate knickers!"
Completely unexpectedly she said "Ok, I'll have a look!"

In nearly 20 years of marriage that was the first time I'd ever known her even consider, never mind actually search for anything sexual on her laptop. The results were disappointing (try googling for chocolate knickers yourself) but it was the matter of fact way that she did it as if it was completely normal for her, which if you knew her you'd know it was anything but."

Have I manipulated her into doing something she never did before. Yes.
Have I manipulated her into doing something she didn't want to do? I think not.
Will we have fun in the future looking at sexual stuff on the internet. Very likely.
Would I ever make her do something she didn't want to do. No, never.
Will she know I've slowly and deliberately changed her behaviour? Would she notice the changes in herself? Maybe, but I doubt that she would find any offence in it, she still makes her decisions, I just present possible choices and opportunities. If she doesn't want to do something, she doesn't.

We've both changed each other in different ways, and it's been for our mutual benefit.
We both grow and enjoy what we do, and as long as it's consensual, there's no harm being done.

 

[Xileh]

I don’t think this qualifies as manipulation. Manipulation implies an unfair means seeking a one-sided gain. It sounds as if you gently introduced her to something new. Her actions don’t sound unwilling.

I think that by not manipulating her for your own selfish purposes, she has discovered something new on her own, and will probably continue to surprise you as well as herself.

 

[tegelad]

Forcing your partner to engage in activities of a sexual nature is not "consensual". If you have the elephant in the room (I understand this very well being the Baskin Robbins view (ice cream store) while she is multiple shades of vanilla), then you need to communicate your needs in a non sexual setting, and if she says no .... it means no.

That doesn't mean you can't play with yourself in the relationship; however, great care needs to be taken with regards to intimacy. If it bothers her to the extreme and you are not forcing it upon your partner, then a discussion about the real relationship maybe in order as the two of you may not be a match.

Relationships have four dials. Physical, Communication, Emotional, and Sexual. People hard focus on the 1st and 4th not realizing the 2nd and 3rd are the most important to deal with the 4th and the 1st is the least important.

So you may "love" [note the little l] your wife, but you don't "Love" your wife as real love takes sacrifice.

From your writing and what I have seen (not trying to dox), @L-u-c-y is a high value woman who rightly requires a high level of respect, communication, and partnership before the walls/gates/doors are even adjusted with a person. There is zero wrong with having high standards as like as the person is clear, concise, and direct and conversely fair. I haven't seen anything to the contrary with Lucy.

Guys who are partnered up ... you have been successful at some point with your personal Lucy, and if she tells you "no". Then you need to work on the 2nd and 3rd items which requires respect, love and service to your partner to engage in the 4th dial (sex).

I fail all the time ... but I don't stop trying. Guys that are frustrated need to turn that frusrtration into building themselves up in non sexual activities or in building their partner up. Plant the seed, tend and care it ... and one day it may grow if you deserve it .