Why do some women resist FemDom and chastity?

Mistress Watchful said:
I don't expect to find the answer, but I thought I'd ask the question!


It breaks my heart sometimes when I see male members of the site who would do ANYTHING to serve their SO and yet their partner will not participate. At best they "put up with", and at worst they downright refuse.


Why?!


Surely women just want to be loved and cherished and made to feel special on a daily basis. If their partner needs a little physical "nudge" then what could be so bad about that?


I know I was reluctant, and now I'm still struggling desperately to do what is both enjoyable for the two of us... but why do some just utterly refuse?
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People are entitled to their own feelings and opinions on any matter, why should this one be any different?

We are all creatures of our cultures and peer groups; most more than the small percentage who are openly kinky. And even within the kink subculture there are many diffferent groups and opinions. 'I'll respect your kink and you respect mine" is a great motto; it doesn't work in reality. Kinky folk are just as close minded and parochial as the next self-selected cultural sub-group.

WIITWD is just too far out of the mainstream for most people to accept, regardless of any perceived benefit. Most folks are much more comfortable fitting in than pushing boundaries.

And, to be honest, most men who profess a desire for submission and even those in chastity, are complete "do me's." They have their kink, the way they require their partner to behave, and that's all there is to it. The constant whine of "why can't I find someone who wants me to do do this" gets pretty annoying.

Add this to the fact that too many people think that their fantasy life will translate into a real relationship and, at best, you have the makings for disaster. There are far too may men who read online fantasies (and women who read Anne Rice) and think that they will live their lives that way. It just doesn't work like that.

Take a look at kink sites that allow any sort of personal "want ads." 99% of the time the people that post on these sites aren't looking for a real long-term relationship, regardless of what they say. They are looking for someone to fit their fantasies, and little more. The phrase "velcro collar" came about for a reason.

Step back and look at what gets posted here and elsewhere and try to look at it dispassionately. Even looking past the kink content, you will see that there are very few practical, and emotionally and socially positive statements made by those looking for partners. The needs specified are most often shallow and superficial, especially when men are doing the posting.

I ended up in my current life by accident; but I already had a strong relationship with my partner. And even though this life is new to me, I was already quite experienced in the kink universe, having been an alpha Dom in the D/s world for almost 30 years. Very few people have successful relationships long-term based on kink lifestyles. It is very difficult and you need a strong relationship to withstand the ups and downs, not to mention the demands of the vanilla world.

I get a lot of email on kink sites from people asking how they can live my life. When I tell them that my life isn't my fantasies and that I made the choice to give up this control to another person, and that it is absolutely not about what I want, I almost never hear back from those people again.

Even here, someone (representing themselves as a female dominant) asked me in chat how my partner felt about my chastity and forced femme kinks; they seemed very taken aback when I told them that they aren't my kinks, they are my partners, and I do this because of the degree of love and trust I have for her. I immerse myself in this life because it makes her happy, and that makes me happy, and that is all that I need.


Anyway, I could go on, but then I would really piss a lot of people off that I haven't already. But if someone decides to start another thread specific to these issues, I'll be happy to participate.
 
Why try to understand their resistance, when they wouldn't understand how we adopted and live by it? Our way of life is something we just decided to do it when the timing was right. We probably fought our urges initially, but we all have enjoyed the journey. If the others want to resist, so be it; they will have to WANT to change, and no matter what we say, do or write, they may never be comfortable it. And they may just be scared, too, like the rest of us at the beginning!
 
Well i don't know the answer to any of it but i feel that maybe it's just we fantasize about things that are beyond anothers capabilitys and lord knows i tryed with my ex for 31 years and was no further along then than i was when i started,wonderful people such as yourself,Mistress Michelle and many others are really tuned into it but some can't just grasp the concept.I feel many women want a man to be just that a man not a sissy or a submissive although one can be both and only good things to come out of the lifestyle but good luck lol,you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink ...Happy trails Mistress Emma :)
 
Ok, where I was coming from when I tripped over this, was from an overall point of view....not personal. I do understand that everyone has an outlook and when it comes to intensely personal matters, outside suggestions do not carry much weight unless,it comes from someone known and trusted. In all our cases,I believe we have more influence than the local library. However our significant other(s) chose to downplay our input. Perhaps it is a lack of empathy on our part,for the different way our ladies look at things and come to decisions. Lately, I notice a more easy attitude on the part of my mistress,and an openness to change.
Patience and service, from my perspective, seems to be the key.
Please, feel free to piss me off anytime, you have strong opinion, and for the most part, I agree. "Persevere".
Thanks to all of you.
Mr Gee.
 
Apologies for the late arrival to this (and other) threads!

Introduced badly and with greater emphasis on the sexual side, FemDom could be seen to be be just another domestic / marital burden to contend with, stacked on top of everything else and I think that's why some women are going to back away. Already exhausted by running the household, being the organised one, sorting the kids out etc she now has to run her husband?

It is also counterintuitive to female nature to step up to the plate and take charge instead of being collaborative and communicative- that's why there's a lack of female board members in the corporate world. FemDom appears unfeminine, counter cultural and cruel to the uninitiated in a society that is often confused in what feminism has actually done for women (I count the view that pole dancing and wearing playboy logos as somehow "empowering" as a symptom).

It's a toughie. Adopted properly and sensitively, FemDom brings women the security and love they need in a committed relationship but the barriers that need to be overcome (the bus ticket from the slums - excellent quote PT09), can seem insurmountable. Faced with it for the first time, you need communication, support, motivation and applied common sense. Perhaps some folks feel that it's too much effort - to that view I'd counter that it is their loss :-)
 
Another way to look at it is by comparing it to homosexuality. Being gay puts you in the minority. Statistically your chances of finding a perfect mate are reduced. You probably won't find a good match if you are including heterosexuals in your search criteria. People who find Femdom to be a compelling activity or lifestyle are and will probably always be in the minority. And my guess is that we are a smaller minority than the gays. And so we spend a lot of time examining potential partners for clues regarding their D/s potential. As a submissive man I have chosen women for how they dress and act. Dressing styles are very trendy and dominant trends come and go. If leather boots or high heals are "in" women will purchase and wear them without any awareness of their potential for Femdom. If a woman is strong and domineering it is easy for a submissive man to mistake this behavior for something that can evolve into a Femdom lifestyle.

So I think we need to quit thinking that "normal" women are going to dig our lifestyle and we need to start looking for kinky women. My search is over because of my age, but for those of you who are young, if you are strongly drawn to Femdom don't marry a vanilla girl and make her life and yours miserable, make sure you show your kinky side and make sure that she has one too. Some vanilla men spend years trying to talk their wives into giving "head". To expect a sexually repressed or uninterested woman to transform herself into a Domme is like..... well, as my Irish grandmother used to sing..."You may as well go chasing after moonbeams or light a penny candle from a star."
 
Mistress Watchful, I feel my best response to your initial question is "fear of deviation." I don't mean fear of being deviant, but a strong reluctance to veer from the path we each have "selected" for ourselves.

Each person has a map they've drawn themselves, formed from opinions about subjects and values that make them believe they're doing the right thing. Having an individual outside source suddenly present a wildly different alternative would create a knee-jerk reaction. Why WOULD you get on PT109's bus and leave when all the people you know, associate with, and measure yourself by aren't getting on the bus? From a young age you've learned how to survive in that slum: how to make money, how to interact with others using the folkways, mores, and taboos of that society as guidelines. People are resistant to change, especially when they don't see family members and other peers doing the same thing. They use that knowledge of their "world" to plan their life, and that concerns what is and isn't acceptable concerning sexuality.

Homosexuality has only become "accepted" in the last 20 years or so, and I'd bet that many who "accept" it only do so because if they really shared their feelings about homosexuals they'd be ostracized. Read: political correctness. This is why coming out of the closet remains such a difficult task for most. Femdom and chastity aren't even within the realm of political correctness yet. Those of us here are here by choice and within this forum nearly all view chastity as acceptable and a significant portion view femdom as acceptable. I'm sure that most members of the Taliban viewed subjugating women as acceptable... but taking a step back to view the larger picture of the world we see that they don't represent the majority. Nor do we. The Taliban doesn't want to even discuss equality of women, because they're very sure their method is the correct one. Some, obviously, have perceived value in it.


I don't think I've included all I wanted to in this response, but it's time to get ready for work. I'll leave you with what I've got.

No.. I'm not saying we're the Taliban.
 
mikecb said:
Heh, interesting thread, and one for which I wish I knew the answer completely. I'm in exactly this situation. I think a lot of the reasons have been touched on above, and in previous posts by me, but in the spirit of contributing... hehe.

In our case, I see a number of contributing factors. First, my wife was raised in a very traditional "50s style" family. The man was expected to be the breadwinner, and the woman expected to stay home and take care of the kids. I think she envisioned herself in a relationship like that during her childhood.

What's interesting, is that that vision is in opposition to her own desire to be independent, assertive, and break those old stereotypes. I think her head wants to do one thing, but her conditioning is the opposite. There are times when she wants to be assertive, and other times when she seems genuinely unwilling to step up and deal with things, expecting me to take the protector/provider role.

Coupled with that bit of confusion, add the fact that she has very little libido, and little sense of adventure in bed. There are times when she even goes so far as to criticize sex, almost as if it's an animalistic instinct, and that we should be more evolved. Again, this is a little confused by the fact that when we were first dating, she seemed to have a perfectly normal libido! lol. However, I think when we both got older, she gained weight, and we decided we would not have kids, her libido just dried up. She even got medication, at one point, but then decided not to take it. She thought it would make her behave like an animal or something.

So, at this point in her life, she treats sex as a somewhat "immature" activity. It doesn't really interest her. On those rare occasions that we are intimate, I get the sense that she is doing it more as a courtesy to me, than out of interest in her part. For my part, I have no desire to rape my wife, so it just doesn't work for me either. The net result is a pretty dead sex life.

Now, adding chastity to the mix doesn't really work for her. It just creates more "attention" around sexual issues, which she regards as somewhat immature and childish. Hence, she's just not interested.

Still, she's open-minded, and at least TRIES to participate in my interests. On occasions when we've attended play parties and such, she has seemed intrigued, but frankly, it's mostly about playing "dress up". She walks around checking out all the Domme's outfits, but pretty much rolls her eyes at the goings-on. She likes getting dressed up in Domme clothes, but doesn't know what to do with herself. She also has little motivation to learn, since she views it all as rather silly and childish.

That's my best guesses, anyway. Like many married couples, it seems trying to speak openly about intimacy seems to lead to more frustration and arguments than resolution. I do love and care for my wife, but this is an area of our marriage that just doesn't work. Trying to add Femdom on top of something this dysfunctional seems like a recipe for disaster.
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Good thread and my first post.

I relate mostly to the above thread and have been playing around with chastity for probably 5 years or more. Owing a CB3K a 6K and now a MM Jailbird.

I am not a sissy, not even close but I don't hold that against those that are.

My wife is naturally dominant but as with Mike sees anything sexual as something for the young, and she is past it, my wife is only 48, but has been past it for a long time (since our first kid i think), like Mikes wife intimacy is something she does for me, not for her. In the 5 years of playing with chastity I have never been able to convince my wife to allow me to give her a orgasm while I was locked up, she just does not see the point. Sex for us has always been a touchy subject, I always want it, and she never wants it, as such I have to admit to being a asshole on more than many occasion.

There have been times where she has embraced chastity, but its been more from a sex avoidance rather than a dominant thing, while she is naturally dominant and bossy the point that she misses every time is the difference between telling someone to do something in a way that if you don't do it RIGHT NOW i am going to divorce you, and being told to do it in a way that is laced with intimacy. When she is being a bitch in a I am going to divorce kind of way I feel like chucking all these thoughts in the garbage, its such a tiny tweek and she could gain so much. Yet I know she loves me its just her way of getting what she wants even if I think its a bit misguided...omg did I say my wife who I would LOVE to submit to is misguided??

I think she is worried about feeling like she owes me something, and this is also my failing for a few reasons, after a week, but this occurs whether I am in a device or not, I feel a real compelling need to give her a orgasm, there was a time where she would let me out for a "stretch" and allow me to rub on her bottom so long as i wore a condom, but I blew it because this was not enough for me, although i would have happily forgone my orgasm (told her this many times), I really needed to give her one, and right there, my wife sees no point in her having a orgasm ...both at all...and or without me having one. I know she masturbates on her own (although rarely and only during the day) she claims that she does not need them and because it usually results in her not sleeping at all following a orgasm all night (she has trouble sleeping) even if i rub her back fo a hour afterwards its just not worth her while having one. So I think for her she perceived chastity as putting her under more pressure even if its perceived. However chastity has enabled me to have much greater control over myself, and I am beginning to accept that if she does not want a orgasm then thats fine as well, but it makes the path harder to walk than for some. Chastity for me is a necessity as I wast way too much time and energy taking care of it myself, suffice to say i am a orgasm addict. when I am chaste it feels so much nicer and safe rubbing my wifes back each night, if i am not wearing I tend not to bother, yet my wife does not seem to correlate this behavior, yet i know she loves the massages.

Another problem has been plastic devices really end up being cacky and undesirable from normal wear and tear and on more than one occasion after the mrs found it in a draw or whatever made a comment about it being .....yucky..turn off etc. I waited way way too long to get a metal device which I have only had for a few weeks. Also have to say the Jailbird is a great device, so easy to clean, pee, more secure (correctly sized) and comfortable than the 6K. My wife has not had much to say about the new one yet and so its still a work in progress.

I also think she is worried about someone finding out, I am 46, lets face it, what happens if I have a sudden urgent health problem, I think she is also worried about what people would think of her if they found out my cock was locked up by her. I thought about giving her a letter categorically stating that I locked my own cock up and its only EVER been at my request not something she wanted...but ahhhh I so want her to want to participate!!!
 
Some fantastic and eye opening responses.

FemDom means so many things to so many people. Maybe I ask too many questions and should just go with the flow... but then I (and others) wouldn't have seen so many thoughts on the matter. It's good to play Devil's Advocate.

I guess a lot of it all comes down to a stable relationship with good communication and a partnership that works. If there is too much push or pull from either side, no type of relationship will work.

Hmmmm, needs more thinking time.
 
I can see why. My wife loves chastity and femdom, but she's an extremely maternal person and she treats me like her baby. So, like, she'll lock me up and tease me ruthlessly; the usual chastity stuff and play, but quite simply, she can't spank or anything because even if I like being spanked, she won't do it because she like, physically, can't hurt me. And she gets off when I act like a "regular boy" and that would entail masturbating a whole lot. She tells me to watch porn and masturbate when I'm not locked a lot. And, like, some people were saying about how they switch roles, well, my wife likes being the traditional wife role, but dominant in the bedroom. I mean, she'll make sly comments about me being bad in public and she tends to grab my crotch a lot at home by ourselves as a reminder, or call me pet or puppy, but for the most part she'll act as a typical woman because that's what she likes. Our relationship when she's in charge is more of me being her puppy (she feeds me treats even!) or being her baby (breastfeeding). I think it's just preference and personality. And some people were talking about how they were withholding kisses or whatever, once again, she loves to french kiss me, so withholding that would be torture. It'd be like topping from the bottom. I mean, yeah, in a way she's totally in charge. If I came to her one night when she was craving sex but I was locked up and said..."Let me out..." she'd probably do it, but lock me back up. We take breaks and stuff, too. I don't think necessarily it's resisting, but just preference. My point being is that for some women like my wife who maybe don't have that secretive kinky side she does just would completely resist, and I understand why.
 
I think this thread should be nominated for "The Best Mansion Thread" award.

Everyone has touched on what I think area all of the key points in the subject though I am sure there are other points not posted yet. Here is my summary;

For a very long time most societies have placed all women as subservient to men. So it is a conditioning. In my opinion all relationships have a dominant and submissive partner at the base. It might be minimal but it exists. Gender does not matter, it is the people involved. The image of the 50's household is quite strong and I know couples that live 50's household, some are admittedly kinky, some are not.

Being Kinky is where being gay was 40 years ago. It's not so dangerous in the US/UK and some other societies to be openly gay. Yes, in parts of the world being gay can still get you killed. Being kinky is slowly mainstreaming. There are those in the kink community NOT happy about this but it is happening. Watch the Rhianna S&M song and of course, Madonna, and many others. Looks like the lady performers are leading the way. I think it is because women are considered less threatening. Somehow seeing Gene Simmons dragging Shannon on leash is not as easy to sell. (though Shannon on a leash is a hot idea.) Consider us all "second generation early adopters." A bit frustrating but someone must pave the way.

Economics and Devices - I think this is a huge factor and one we most often forget. Chastity devices were once, extremely expensive, very hard to find and so specialized it made things difficult at best. I know in the mid '80's we tried some leather belts for my wife and I and while fun, not very practical. Now we have <$100 devices out there that are easy to find, and while quality and success vary, they are available in many stores that sell sex toys. Kind of like the radar range. Once something only a few rich could afford, almost everybody can get one now. Useful belts for women are still more boutique. I have gone the way of piercings to secure the slave at this time, but that is another subject.

Screw the Roses... - I mean this in the soft sell category. The most common mental image of BDSM is some dominant in leather with a whip and a slave naked on the floor groveling. While some of us find this a great idea, it's not so easy to sell to most partners. While Screw the Roses Send Me the Thorns is a book from a mostly male dominant point of view, the approach is brilliant and books like The Ethical Slut follow in that soft sell concept. Instead of, "I want you to wear latex and high heels, carry a whip, lock me in chastity and chain me to the bed." A guide to fun playful erotic adventure with chastity would be great. Market a book or game to be sold with an inexpensive device in adult toy stores. I think Kept For Her is well on the way with this approach. It's going to vary but many women prefer a softer approach, make it playful and fun as a concept. When I saw Lean Periods post, I thought that your wife was brilliant, she might have met you part way and satisfied yours and her needs. Even subconsciously, she knows you both are "offline" for that five days.

Make it fun and not so scary and more will join in. Make it what works for all involved.
 
I agree with Sir this is a great post and wanted to add abit more if i may.The heading of the site says be careful what you wish for and maybe should be hope for or both as i feel we hide our fantasys at times and get with a partner hopeing if you kinda slide this in later maybe they will take a liking to it and some do but i feel it's pretty rare.I met mike and his wife at the last gathering and mike please don't take offence to this as none is meant at all and i think you both are very wonderful people but after a conversation or two i could tell she was no more into this than i'm into making love to a goat and such a shame also but it's the way it goes i guess,it was like looking into a mirror of my life with my ex (was abit scary in away)so maybe abit of advice to the younger or single folks don't get into a relationship vanilla hopeing for strawberry later but be open and honest in the begining about yourself and give the other a chance to accept it or walk away for it usually ends up with both sides unhappy and hell theirs no fun in that ,good luck and love to all ;)
 


Going to attempt to add something to this (both from perspective and suppositions).

First, i think, at least in the US, that image is EVERYTHING and the mere thought of someone going/demonstrating kink (male or female) could possibly paint or tarnish the "I can do it all (my cake and eat it too) and have-it-all image" even though you may be practicing kink very quietly or possibly loudly. The thing is that to each their own, yes, but judgemental Americans may think this is something very, very "wrong" and friendships or even work could be affected if it were known that this person or couple is into kink. Again, you really can't tell, because some may dress and advertise a look and not be kinky at all, but try to "act" as if they are - the image that is portrayed isn't always the real image. If one REALLY conducted a study on this, i would bet that well over 50% are doing something borderline to real kink in their lives/environment but if it were exposed it could lead to a black eye (again, judgement of that person or couple) and shouldn't even come out to the light. But there lives the "lie" within us, if like a post earlier mentioned, the "hiding" being gay (thirty years ago - but the whispers were going round) OR if someone is truly into kink and "hiding" this from people who are significant to them, that we aren't being truthful about who we are. The "double life" is possible but has to managed ever so carefully. i think it's best when it is done this way - carefully managed. The opposite, which is also correct, is to live it full on, so everyone knows and this is difficult because society doesn't always welcome this this.

So to answer the original question as to why "some women" resist, the first was mentioned, that it should never be thought of that so and so is into kink - so don't even go there. For all we know Hillary was tying Bill up long ago but kept that under wraps. You wouldn't want anyone to even think this about the modern woman, and maybe some reading has taken place or some media event has caught a woman up just a little, she would turn on the resist button and say no way, I'm not getting into this. This would tarnish my/our image and image is everything.

Which gets us into the chastity piece, which surely is a discussion point in many a thread here at the Mansion. That it's mainly a guy thing and a woman is a part of a fantasy that gets enacted on a daily basis, that it's mainly serving the man and really has little to do with the woman OR that she does understand her power in this play and somehow is able to maintain it. For many of us here, it began more as a dream that we made into a reality. It can be very difficult to maintain it.

It's really about not getting your wires crossed too often and keeping a sane perspective to everything. Keep it all very much real, but be certain that the fantasy doesn't "take over".

i know that i always had the desire in me when i was quite young and got things going around ten/eleven tears ago. This did lead to a relationship that maybe shouldn't have happened, but did, culminating in an impossible three year relationship, where we lived together 24/7. It began completely around kink and of course couldn't sustain. She wanted the relationship to be "in-kink" but you can't live this existence full on, if you have to balance the "vanilla existence". Guess who finally called it all off? That would be me first and she sealed the deal. It was too much. It became too complicated. You have to be true to yourself first and to the relationship. Opposition leads to end of harmony.

Now i'm in a toned down relationship, did get into dressing up (yes a few times a month), but we do not go out as a couple with me in dress (although of course this is a fantasy) and i can pursue this, but won't. The reality, i believe, is that it's like a switch that you can turn on in your brain, utilize fully, and then simply put away until later needed. It fulfills something deep down that is needed and necessary, and it can be like a drug, but learn how to live with the need and life and communicate it only when it is safe and the time is right to do so. Personal safety is a must.

Many people can't do this, because again, if anything ever got out into the public, then the image is destroyed that is taking EVERYTHING to be maintained. There are some things that we have learned to keep very close and guarded and this is one of them. Don't advertise to the world, but do practice when necessary to fully feel that experience, what takes place.

Learn how to do this - it's a journey that we are all taking here. Do no harm to others but do what is necessary and right in the the most consenting way possible for those (you and whomever) that do wish "to play" and be very clear to those people who know that you do that this is a very private matter. In the kink world, of course, everyone understands this. But in the vanilla world, this is where quality in a relationship is key. Protect the inner self and inner soul to those only who can relate or understand. It becomes completely a matter of trust.


Be careful what you wish for indeed, but act on it in the most rational ways possible. Great advice here by Ms. Emma and Her staff.

Agree, that it's all about the fun (why it's called play). So keep it in perspective.

Above all keep it SS&C. The best advice ever developed by whoever coined it.

 
Thank you ever so much to all who posted in this thread.
When I wonder if it's all worth it, i visit this thread and the answer is a resounding Oh yah! Mansionites are a fab lot!
MW , hope your proud.
Mr Gee
 
I think there is a practical element here as you say Sissy Aline. It isn't all rubber boots and whips. The most intelligent blog (MayMay) I read ages ago talked about the idea of relationships being in a stack, layers upon layers. Understood in this way, it makes perfect sense. I'm always my hub's Domme but often, I am simply his wife in social situations as to come over all bossy and Domme-ly would be incompatible with the acceptable outward face of the way society wants us to be. I don't get too het up about it, we know who we are and what roles we play. Leading him about on a dog chain isnt really acceptable in the supermarket and - I have to say - some of the frisson of kink is that ownership of a naughty secret :-)
 
So if my wife is very vanilla and this just isn't her thing...then I'm kinda stuck, because I I'd like to be in chastity (I'm a very frequent masturbator even at age 44) because I think it would bring us closer, but she really deson't bring it up at all unless I say something to start it. I toyed wtih it a couple years ago, but didn't seem to work. I'm just not sure where to go now. If she was a bit more dominant, and spoke up, and took more control, it would be so much easier! But she comes from a traditonal family and is very submissive herself. I totally can't blame her, but do any women have any thoughts on how I can move this along. I've looked at chasity devices, and am willing to get a piercing...but wife never asks when..or has any questions...or even hints that this is what she would like....so...not sure what to do? Any advice?
 
I know that I had to convince my Miss that being assertive is not the same thing as being rude. Many women take on a lot of cultural baggage. I was taught to never be in debt & that being unemployed is equal to being worthless--hard to undo.
 
maybe she is a submissive herself

maybe she just is not interested or education has taught her its perverted and notfor her
 
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