The Emperor's New Clothes?

Okay - it took me a while to get to - where I would write this post - I had to build up the nerve - the courage to do it....

This Is in fact a thread that I start based on my reaction to another thread:
"Mistress and Lucy..." found here

Why not just post in that thread? Well If you want to find out why not, why I think I should lift my take on that thread to another scene - I guess You will have to visit the thread I linked to, and then to work your way through my post in here... And Then I hope you will agree...

Here we go:

I am in many ways still a rookie, but I have travelled pretty far already, in life in general, in the chastity lifestyle and here on CM. And I trust CM to be fair.....

People who know me - in here - will agree that I try to keep ethics high ,- and that I try my best to be polite, gentle and fair - accepting that this lifestyle comes in many flavors, and that each and everyone can not be judged by any universal scale.
Having said that I have also raised my voice when someone seems to turn chastity into a competition- when the objectives likes: Who has been locked up the longest? has been promoted. I have also raised my voice when someone -in order to be a "real sub" - seems to be caught up in a Cuckold fantasy, that they obviously do not seem to be comfortable with after all, once it becomes reality.

And here we are again: When I look at You - @Mistress Deborah and @philfred and the transformation into Lucy, I feel the urge to speak out once more....

I have read along the way about this upcoming transformation and now when I see the outcome, and see the encouraging remarks this photo of You are getting, - I hear a voice inside my head - asking - again and again: Is this path going to preserve and protect the integrity of the human being behind the mask?

Or will it like some incidents of cuckolding damage a mans inner self, never to be fully recovered? If that indeed is the case, then The Domme holds one hell of a responsibility, depriving a human beings ability to support themselves. And that goes even if the sub is in consent, because we all know that we subs can be brought to a place where we are so influenced by this lifestyle that we stop to think rational, and leaves all reason and destiny to Our Domme - whoever she may be.....

As long as this liaison between a Domme and a sub is blooming, there should be no cause for alarm, - so it appears....

However - because of the inherent unbalanced dividing of power in the relationship , the Domme still holds the responsibility for the well being of the sub - even in the long run, - and after a relationship for any reason breaks up - despite the fact that the path chosen has been taken in consent.

I have to underline - before anyone holds me in contempt , that I do not accuse anyone here, I just raise a flag, for everyone to act with caution - extreme caution, especially the once in charge - at present - of another human beings destiny and self preservation. ( Sorry - but I do hope my written English makes sense, being a Dane and all)

It could very well be that I am barking up the wrong tree here, - and frankly I am hardly barking - just little uneasy And If - what I have to say - does not fit this "case" - Im sure it will fit just fine in other cases.

When I read the comments to the photo - most of them flat out cheering - I recalled a world famous Danish tale by H.C. Andersen : The Emperor's New Clothes - in which only a small kid dares to tell the obvious truth, that nobody else wants to say out loud: that the emperor is stark naked, - that his new clothes do not exist, - he has been the victim of a scam...

So dear @Mistress Deborah and @philfred - I do not see what others speak so highly about. I see something been taken to the extreme - for the benefit of Who? Tell me in all honesty: Do You really see a happy face on Lucy? I don't ! I do understand masks, -they are what they are: Masks. They do not attempt to impersonate another human being, as this grotesque outfit does.

In my book there must be - even for Dommes - limits to what level of transformation/modifications you can force your sub to undertake, in order to please your own desires.

I'm No Sissy, no maid, but hopefully a devoted husband, having surrendered to my wife, my love.. But I hold nothing against Males wanting to wear and dress up like females. It is not that which trickers my reaction. Whatever rocks your boat. Some even look so damn hot!

Only if you are not entering this transformation for your own pleasure, but are being put into this position by the force - or just desire - of a Domme, I think it is something different. Then I think certain limits should apply.
I Do not hear that You @philfred craves this level of feminization? I hear that this is something that You @Mistress Deborah has orchestrated?

Am I right or am I dead wrong, - or does it even matter...?

My point is that the one in power holds a heavy responsibility - to preserve and protect the subs inner self and integrity, no matter how much - in or out of the heat of the moment - the sub wants to give it all up.

In fear of being relegated from CM, I will now jump back into bed, to my beloved wife, Who wants me to be who I am: Her Devoted, loving, totally surrendered human being, - but also A human being that she can count on, to protect and provide, and so much more. She loves me just the way I am, and She does not - as far as I know - want to change that one single bit..... So no silicone mask for me tonight;-)

 

Morning Thanks for joining in on this...

If no one gets hurt - I am totally at ease. And if indeed the subs is the one initiating extreme measures , - well what can You do? Hold your hands to your ears when they scream out in pain. Sure!
But...
I'm for the most part addressing those cases where the Domme is indeed on top. Let me repeat my closing statement:
My point is that the one in power holds a heavy responsibility - to preserve and protect the subs inner self and integrity, no matter how much - in or out of the heat of the moment - the sub wants to give it all up.

and this:

The Domme holds one hell of a responsibility, depriving a human beings ability to support themselves. And that goes even if the sub is in consent, because we all know that we subs can be brought to a place where we are so influenced by this lifestyle that we stop to think rational, and leaves all reason and destiny to Our Domme - whoever she may be.....

Do you agree that in those cases the domme has a special responsibility? I find it hard to get your opinion on that from your post/reply. Maybe A cup of coffee would help to clear my mind.? Could not after all fall asleep after having posted the first post in this thread.... so off for coffee

 

Should not interrupt you getting ready to leave for work. Sorry! Have A great day at work and beyond See you back here on CM - if I am not being relegated by then;-) Lol...

 

To @Wendygirl - and to all:
I have had my coffee - and a little more perspective.

Maybe I should not get involved, and just leave threads that I find potential troublesome alone. The same could be said about this thread - if you are not into discussions of domes responsibility when things go to the extreme, -then maybe You should just let it be, and leave it.

Well, since I was the one to burst out with my worries, it is of course only fair to accept incoming comments as well. But I understand if You would rather just let it be, and move on to other matters... I do not post with filters keeping readers from commenting any way they like - or dislike.

I have no intention of stepping on anybody's toes, - and for the record - I have no reason to suspect any wrongdoing in the described relationship. I was just fired up by the photo and the comments to make my speech about general precautions in a Domme/sub relationship...
But of course if anybody would like to address these issues I certainly would not led them down.


May You all have an enjoyable day

Sincerly BlueEyes

 

I totally agree - and many thanks for daring! I accept that CM is for everyone, and for a wide range of topics, - since You cannot box in chastity lifestyles..
But that privilege should also apply to topics like this - in my humble opinion. And rigid consensus - that "extreme is better"- is not necessarily a good thing.

@SubVerity - I hear you, - and also thank you for taking time.... and I don't want to be a pain in the arse, - but I would like to think that my time spent here on CM is well spent, -and that sometimes means that we should be able to address more heavy issues ...
We are all adults here, as you put it. And CM as well. I think we can all survive - while we are allowing ourselves a little perspective now and then...
But of course I have no intention of groundlessly accusing anybody, -And if you read my post as if I did, I apologize to You and to the couple in question.

 

I am so pleased That You took the time to reply, and to explain the thoughts and background. Great Gesture!
And it is so much better to have the dialog with the source, than to be fired at from supporters, easily victimizing the one I have addressed. Cause that is often the case. They do it in good faith , and to defend, but often it ends up being a chaotic and unpleasant scenario, - and some are even scared off - for good. And the ones being "protected" may not even need or ask for this support team...., but wants to indulge themselves in a constructive debate on the issues ....

As I stated in my remark to @Wendygirl I am totally at ease , if this is what you truly wants. And I hear that the two of you - have managed to merge two different desires into one output: Lucy. That is a happy marriage - and I have no problems with that. I think the sad eyes of Lucy led me to believe that something perhaps was not in sync..., but what can you tell from a photo? You are right...

However I also Do hope That you get from my posts that I quickly migrated the focus away from this initial impression to a more general discussion of responsibility and care when things are getting heavier than the tiny piece og steel or plastic around the our members. I raised a general concern, that once you make serious changes/modifications to another humans expression, You hold a great responsibility for that persons integrity and self awareness.

That was my agenda, not to point fingers and to make anybody remove photos and such. No Way. Please Don't . I was never offended, I was concerned.....

Maybe we Danes are less educated in forum conduct, Than You Englishmen. Don't hold that against us. I hope You after all find it refreshing with inputs from different "cultures"...

Sincerly
BlueEyes

 

... continued.
Forgot to reply to your question @philfred . Sorry!

If she wanted a girlfriend? - well in fact she almost got one occasionally - , but it appears as if she is meant for sharing And being this stereotype of af male figure I am, I do not say no to a scenario like that, as long as it is not more than an reopened adventure a spicy side dish. If she wanted a girlfriend on the side, or at the top, and me on the side, left in the corner, I would not go along. Period. That is not in my book, and I don't see it being a part of hers - ever... I Would not comply, and that does not - in my book, make me a second or third class sub.
But we are all different aren't we?

 

I really appreciate your feed back and the way You receive my message. Yes, it was somewhat personal, but much more a general observation/concern. Maybe I just worry to much - or some would be kind enough to say that I care too much...
I act based purely on my observations and general concern, because my actual knowledge of the "setup" is obviously very restricted. I am glad that both of you filled the gap for me, and I wish you the best for the future in the setup you have chosen.

To me it is still fruitful to discuss responsibility in connection with power control, but that is a topic, that I might exercise more , - but in another thread, departed from this, so that no one will take it for being related to your arrangements...

Have a lovely day - both of You

 

I get what you are saying, but it was not a question of whether or not I can accept a specific kink or not. I have no problems with a very liberal range of kinks. It all comes down to a question of whether it is in consent, and if that is the case, it still remains a question of the sanity of the relation. So it has not to be forced upon someone to be a potential problem - in my book. I do not endorse setup/arrangements etc. that inflicts loss of human integrity. Kinks are not that sacred to me...

 

Thanks Wendy

My reply to @yourpuppymiss is also a suitable reply to your recent post. I may add that I do not completely share your views that there is hardly any unhealthy ( in terms of preserving integrity) kinkiness around. I t just takes place on the perimeter, and victims tends to drop out to God knows what destiny at one point. Maybe that is the reason You don't hear much of them...

 

I certainly got my hands full here;-) - somehow I knew it was to happen, but that is OK. I can handle it, and I do see a lot of efforts to be very civilized in addressing me on this, and I thank You and everybody else for that.

However I do have to object to the box Im being lead into here.
Let me repeat: I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO EVEN EXTREME KINKINESS. I used to inflict a lot of pain to myself. For instance I liked to punch holes in my cock with the tool you use to make extra holes in a leather belt with. Just like that, just for the fun an pain/pleasure of it. I have nailed my balls with glowing iron and more stuff in that department. I heal fast, and has done it numerous times. That is kink - as well, don't you think?

My point is - and I shall repeat it one last time - that no kink is that sacred to me , that it must be allowed to risks taking away your human integrity, or the integrity of some else that you somehow play with/control, - depriving you or him/her the ability to cope with an everyday life for the remaining part of that life, without leaving heavy issues and mental and or physical scares...

That is my take on this, and I hope you all will respect that I have this limits on my acceptance of kinks. You can have no boundaries, or just raise the bar if you feel like it . Take your pick

Regarding me reacting to a photo in a somewhat public forum, and addressing those on that photo in that same forum, - is in my book not a major offense. I tried hard to make it clear that I could bed barking up the wrong tree, - but that did not mean that my general concern was all that rude or irrelevant to discuss. Yes or no?

I take that only a few of those who has posted cheering remarks to the photo, really knows the story behind it
( well - now we have all been enlightened - thanks to this thread) Yet they just praise what they see. I can see numerous issues in that approach as well..... if we are to look further into the conduct.... Could be a bit condescending as well if you look at it like that, I would think,-)

I have been given very informative and comforting insights from @Mistress Deborah and @philfred , and I am grateful for that. No cause for alarm here, and as I stated somewhere earlier, - I do think that they actually prefer to speak for themselves, - and they did just that, and did it good.

 

I think you are wrong. There gads been research into this dark side of kink - in fact I have done some myself:

Of course I can only speak from a Danish perspective, but since you ask so directly I can tell you that I have in fact been studying this in the BDSM community in Denmark when I was at the University. Believe it or not, I spent 18 month on research interviewing, and reporting from the community in and around the danish Sado Masochism organization SMIL. And I have seen first hand people being deprived of integrity. I have interviewed people in prison , for having inflicted death on "playmates" because of too extremes measures during BDSM-play. The purpose was to study w why people out of free will hand over control to the extend where it deprives them there integrity, - and also to see what happen to humans in the long run if they in fact had been deprived...
But of course I can not speak for all. I speak of what I know, and only that...

But I think we should touch base on the subject in another thread, some other time - don't you think?