Don't Expect a Man to Put more “Effort” in to your Relationship than You

[Mascara^Snake]

Men care about having a relationship, and want a relationship, but they don’t come with the instinctive understanding about how to communicate and express love the way women might.
I believe that male chastity can help to turn this around.

 

[Guest 3729]

I agree, my wife and I have been together for quite a while and I feel like I've learned so much more about her wants and needs in my last 3 years of chastity. We are very content in our FLR/ chastity relationship

 

[Nicoftime]

Chastity can also be a learning tool for women as well. She believed that certain activities led to others. Period. Making out led to at least genital groping, receiving oral meant reciprocating, orgasms led to their orgasm...etc.

She has used chastity to learn about her desires and priorities. Giving her the self confidence with that knowledge to speak her mind, take what she wants, and ask for what I'm too stupid to pick up on lol. Sometimes we don't know what is going on because it wasn't spoken. We pick up on symptoms, anger, annoyance, apathy, passive aggressive remarks or behavior....but sometimes we just need to be told to do something or not do something. We are simple critters.

Anyway, it's not just the men that get help with communication thru chastity.

 

[Joroincharge]

It's also an essential part of the dynamic. He's to be the one controlled. She's to be the one in charge and in control. Therefore it's she should be calling the shots and taking the initiative: assuming of course that taking that control is what she wants to do,

 

[Mash2214]

Yes @Mascara^Snake women and men are very much different. It's the way we are. I do believe that for a relationship to grow and be successful both the man and the women need to get I touch with how their spouse thinks and what makes them who they are.

Chastity helps men become more I touch with their feminine side. While the women becomes more dominant which would be considered more of a male trait. I successful relationship takes both people working together to make it work no matter what kind of relationship it is. We just chose for it to be a Chastity FLR relationship.

 

[PouchPantyLover]

Even a pitbull can be docile if you put a chokehold on it.

Again with this analogy? I have to agree with the first half of what @David.2k wrote. I think the old stereotype of the uncommunicative and non-expressive male is starting to die off. There are plenty of male role models now that have the traits of a solid communicator and emotionally expressive. Even pre-chastity and FLR I was always the communicator in my marriage. My wife would get silent mad and I'd want to talk about it and share my feelings. Of course I ended up being a sissy with his penis in a cage, so maybe I'm different?

 

[Mascara^Snake]

It's a good analogy and holds true in this case, so I'll keep using it. A lot of people here wants to fabricate good behavior, and that's fine if all you want is a trained dog, but if you want an actual partner you'll have to do better.

I'm sorry but Classical conditioning does not need to impinge on on your ability to have a loving relationship with your partner.
Modification of neural substrates can actually be very sexy and so subtle.

Again with this analogy? I have to agree with the first half of what @David.2k wrote. I think the old stereotype of the uncommunicative and non-expressive male is starting to die off. There are plenty of male role models now that have the traits of a solid communicator and emotionally expressive. Even pre-chastity and FLR I was always the communicator in my marriage. My wife would get silent mad and I'd want to talk about it and share my feelings. Of course I ended up being a sissy with his penis in a cage, so maybe I'm different?

I don't think this stereotype is "starting to die off". I've yet to see any evidence.
It's hard to imagine that after 40'000 years of dragging women about by the hair and skinning woolley mammoths man has suddenly changed his primordial genetic make up and dropped the stick.

 

[Quercus Jay]

Until very recently in Human history, i.e. The last five thousand years or so, there is a lot of evidence that we lived in a matriarchal society. The evolution of society relied on the woman and her wisdom far more than the male and his strength. Men who abused the group would be ejected from it and would not survive. Witches for instance were knowledgeable about health and were midwives. The idea that they were evil and not to be trusted was part of the power struggle that came much later, sometimes as an agenda of religion and sometimes masked as that simply as a way to push the woman back down.

Anyway, many men haven't dropped their stick and I doubt most ever will. They would think I am weak to have submitted to my Wife and I in return think they are utter dickheads who will never understand true happiness.

 

[windrush]

I'm sorry but Classical conditioning does not need to impinge on on your ability to have a loving relationship with your partner.
Modification of neural substrates can actually be very sexy and so subtle.



I don't think this stereotype is "starting to die off". I've yet to see any evidence.
It's hard to imagine that after 40'000 years of dragging women about by the hair and skinning woolley mammoths man has suddenly changed his primordial genetic make up and dropped the stick.

Men started to drop the stick in Victorian times. Until then, men were legally allowed to thrash their wives with a stick, providing it was no greater in width than a thumb. Hence the expression "rule of thumb"

 

[Mascara^Snake]

Depends on what you call “loving”. People can love their pets, and dogs can love their owners, but that is all they are, owners and pets.

When we talk about romantic relationships there are some key elements needed, one of which is genuine commitment. If the *primary* way you achieve commitment is by strapping a piece of metal on your partner’s balls, then that is anything but genuine.

“Conditioning” can have a place if it’s exclusively verbal, in which case it is mere persuasion. If it involves physical incentives or disincentives, then we’re back to a trained dog.

Yet it seems as someone who has been conditioned to be a part of our society you are still capable of having romantic views.

 

[Quercus Jay]

@David.2k I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. My Wife and I have been doing this romantic chastity thing all wrong, it was your enlightening views that helped me see the light. I didn't realise that she saw me as no better than our dog. No wonder she prefers to rub his belly rather than mine, and I hardly ever get to have a bone.

I am not sure how I am going to break it to my wife that she has been fabricating genuine commitment by making me wear a chastity device, do you have any advice on how I should do it? And does that mean that all of the fun she has had at my expense, fun that I thoroughly enjoyed helping her have, was also, for want of a better word, fake? I cannot get the device off right now as she hides the key and I quite like my testicles, but I shall let her know it is no longer required at the first opportunity. It is probably best I wait until she gets back from work, wouldn't you say? Mornings aren't the best time to try and change someone's mind.

 

[Quercus Jay]

Bugger. Something just occurred to me. We are being a bit simplistic here. Conditioning isn't one way. Me wearing a device with a key held by my Wife has definitely conditioned me. I was a good husband before but now I understand more how to be a better husband. Nothing amazing has changed, all subtle stuff, but there is no doubt I have changed. I'm less sulky for instance.

But!

Me wearing a device with a key held by my Wife has definitely conditioned my Wife. She is much more relaxed about exploring her sexuality, more open to trying new things, much more expressive. It has given her a safe space where she got to decide what happened sexually and, if she didn't want anything to happen, nothing happened. Say what you like about this being easy for her to achieve without using the device and that is a conversation you can have with her. She stayed the way she was through over 25 years of marriage and has changed a huge amount in the two years since I started wearing the device.

I am certainly not brave enough to tell her that she is no better than the dog.

 

[SubVerity]

Ok - @David.2k, less of the huffy tone please. Lets try some of that regular nice person you've been talking about. Or do you need some metal between your legs before YOU can be nice?

 

[Amanda's bitch Sophie]

Men care about having a relationship, and want a relationship, but they don’t come with the instinctive understanding about how to communicate and express love the way women might.
I believe that male chastity can help to turn this around.

Maybe not all men have an instinctive understanding about how to communicate - but some do.

One of the biggest issues that my partner and I have, is that she finds it really difficult to communicate or express how she feels. If I suspected for a minute, that she didn't love me, I would leave. Been there, done that, got the T- shirt. Life's too short etc......but I know she does.

I have lost count of the number of times I have told her that I love her, only for her to say "I know" , or just look away and say nothing. I have cried myself to sleep over that before now.

I know she hates it, when I Insist upon talking about our relationship, so I have backed off. It took a long time for me to adjust and realise that she is different from every woman I have known, but she still finds ways to demonstrate that she loves me in her own way.

I topped from the bottom for a long time and enabled a Dom/sub relationship, where she could be as cold, selfish and uncommunicative as she wanted to be. It required a great deal of mutual trust. I had to convince her that I was not going to leave, like so many of her ex -partners did, when her foibles outweighed her physical attractiveness. At every opportunity I encouraged her to feel and act exactly as she wanted. For her part, she had to accept that I was a Massochist and felt most loved when I had someone to obsess about, who treated me badly.

So far, it seems to be working. I still have to do most of the talking, nurturing and worrying. I know she thinks about our relationship as much as I do, but won't talk about it.

Chastity has definitely played a part in it. She had never come across that relationship dynamic before, and when she accepted that I was serious about it, it went a long way to cementing things between us

 

[Quercus Jay]

Thanks for the questions @David.2k, passive aggressive attitude aside they are good questions and I am happy to discuss my thoughts. And, I shall admit it, I do resort to juvenile sarcasm on occasion. Usually when I am trying not to descend into being rude with someone who is rubbing me up the wrong way, or someone being juvenile enough to think that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

So, let's take them in turn shall we?

Would I have the same level of commitment without the cage?

Commitment to what? To my Wife? Absolutely, I always had. As I stated we had been married over 25 years and in that time we had our ups and downs but I remained her faithful friend, support and all the other jobs that come with being a good husband. There are no nasty skeletons hiding in my closet. Commitment to orgasm control? Now I am conditioned, which I freely and happily admit to, yes, possibly, but as I was learning that she is in control of my orgasms, highly unlikely. Especially once she passed the period of a month length of denial. The cage acted in two ways, first as a visual reminder of what I had agreed to but more importantly as a method of reducing stimulation to my penis, something that became a problem the longer I was denied.

Somehow discouraging her to try new things.

Absolutely not. We had had a healthy sexual relationship over the years but it had started to wane, partly as we had a long distance relationship at that time but partly due to issues that only came to light once I had the device on and we had grown accustomed to talking more openly about sex and intimacy. This was something that she needed more help with than I did. Call it social conditioning if you like but my Wife was very uncomfortable talking about her needs and desires and that had nothing to do with me or what I was doing. She told me that she was brought up to understand that good girls don't talk about that sort of thing.

I was trying to encourage her to talk, not discourage. The safe space I talked about, where my Wife knew implicitly that she could talk about sex without worrying about me then wanting to have sex was critical. Getting to that point took months but she got there. This is an example of me conditioning her, simply by listening and not pressurizing. One thing that made a huge difference was her Saturday rule, which basically states the only day she will allow conversations about sex, Chastity, FLR or any other subject to do with intimate relationship issue. This stopped me overwhelming her with ideas and information, something many men who are just starting in chastity are guilty of.

Pressure her to do something when she would want to do nothing.

Let me be absolutely crystal clear here. I have never, not once, ever pressured my Wife into having sex when she did not want it. If she said no, that meant no. There is no gray area here, if someone says no and you do anything to get your own way, that is rape, pure and simple.

The point you are missing is how she felt about being pressured, not about what I actually did. My Wife loves cuddling, loves being close. But as soon as she would cuddle me I would get aroused. Then she would feel like I wanted to have sex. It got so bad for her that she avoided having cuddles with me as she didn't want to have sex.

Did she ever tell me she felt like that? No, not until I was in the cage. When she did I told her that at no point would she ever have to feel like she had to have sex with me. And then she told me what I was doing that made it bad for her. Sulking. Yep, I was being juvenile, again, and that one simple act was almost destroying our sex life.

So, along comes the cage and, after several months, she is fully engaged, fully in control. Now she gets her cuddles and likes me getting aroused, because she gets to say whether something happens or not. As a result much more happens. We are both happy with the situation and after two years of doing this we would never go back to how it was before.

This is a massive simplification of the dynamic that has been introduced into our relationship. Could all of this have been achieved without the device? I am skeptical but maybe I suppose. Since I put on the device I have learnt about other methods of using orgasm control such as karezza and tantric schedules, but my Wife enjoys being the keyholder and that is what we are going to continue to do.

 

[Cincy]

Men care about having a relationship, and want a relationship, but they don’t come with the instinctive understanding about how to communicate and express love the way women might.
I believe that male chastity can help to turn this around.

I agree, and so does my wife. I am totally devoted to my wife, but after I cum, I get lazy and don't show that devotion in the manner she deserves. Being denied has improved our relationship. It's not that I love her any more, only that I have more energy to show it.

 

[Adventures in Chastity]

Men care about having a relationship, and want a relationship, but they don’t come with the instinctive understanding about how to communicate and express love the way women might.

No, you're expecting them to communicate like women. Men express and communicate just fine. They just do it differently. But for some reason, women expect men to learn how to speak "woman" (there are entire sitcoms centered around the Parenting the Husband trope), but are under no obligation to learn how to speak "man". That's like going to Japan and getting upset that the locals don't speak English.

 

[Quercus Jay]

I need to find a way to ask all my Vanilla friends if they have issues being lazy after an orgasm, or if their husbands are lazy after they have had one. I honestly cannot remember once in my entire marriage where, having had a recent orgasm, I have not felt like showing my Wife how much I love, desire and respect her. This is one of the constants of chastity that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Do I feel a drop in arousal? Absolutely, it takes a few weeks before I get back to full arousal status, but that doesn't change my attitude one iota.

 

[Mash2214]

This has become a very heated discussion about Relationships. The experts in relationships are the people that are living in a long term relationship with the same person. If you haven't lived for many years with the same person what your saying is just theories. How long have YOU been in a relationship with the same person?

 

[Mash2214]

Married for 32 years. Together for 37 years

 

[Mascara^Snake]

No, you're expecting them to communicate like women. Men express and communicate just fine. They just do it differently. But for some reason, women expect men to learn how to speak "woman" (there are entire sitcoms centered around the Parenting the Husband trope), but are under no obligation to learn how to speak "man". That's like going to Japan and getting upset that the locals don't speak English.

You're wrong.

 

[Mash2214]

You're wrong.

Saying someone is wrong is the same as saying their opinion and view point don't matter. Than they can say the same about you. It's not about wrong or right it's more about how different relationships can be. You can't put all men or all women into the same mould everyone is different and deal with Chastity and FLR differently. Just because your opinion is different it doesn't make you right and someone else wrong.

 

[Nicoftime]

@David.2k you are being straight foreword and rational...have you ever met a female? Ok I’m just teasing, but you can assure someone that x doesn’t need to lead to y but they may still feel like it does. It’s not that they haven’t been told or reassured or even that the male “sulks” or acts differently. Sometimes they just feel like that is what you desire if they act a certain way. Trying to convince them it doesn’t have to is like telling a female that is selfconscience about the smell of their vagina how much you want to go down on them...they just think differently about it and having a rational discussion about how it doesn’t bother you will not make a difference.

Sometimes wearing a cage and physically being unable to go further can make a wife more at ease about making out, back rubs, and showing affection, not only because it’s caged but because you want to be denied is what makes her feel comfortable enough to really think that it doesn’t need to go further.

Obviously not all women have a problem discussing sex, feel guilt or obligation to perform, or think one behavior means they owe another...but some do. A rational debate with them, explaining what they are feeling is wrong and doesn’t make sense will not help.

Communication 101 refresher course.

 

[Quercus Jay]

@David.2k

I did say in my previous response that it was a massive simplification of our situation. I just squeezed 25+ years of a very successful relationship into a few paragraphs to try and throw some light into a situation we are both very happy with but you are fundamentally unwilling or unable to understand. You have come to the debate with unshakeable beliefs about how wrong a chastity device is and though you say each to their own it is obvious you don't actually believe that.

I answered your first question about the safe space thoroughly. You have cherry picked the section of the answer that suits you and twisted the meaning for your own agenda. The societal conditioning towards talking about sex that my Wife experienced growing up in England in the tail end of the sixties then through the seventies and eighties had everything to do with her issues and she has said categorically it had nothing to do with me. I am not going to belittle my Wife's issues around talking about sex as I have seen them in full, shocking effect. You grew up as a male, you cannot understand what it was like to grow up as a female in the society that surrounded my Wife. It's not just how she feels talking about sex, She still has issues with sport due to the way she was treated by girls on the netball court when she was under fifteen years old. You going to mock her for that? The device helped her, I am not going to question how that came about, it just did.

Saturday rule. Restrictive? How about providing structure, expectation, interest, time to actually think about what should be talked about rather than just blurring the first thing that pops into my head. By your standards it would have been ok for me to overwhelm her with ideas and information during the headrush that was the start of our chastity experiment and potentially ruin something that has become a cornerstone of our relationship.

What do you mean she isn't reciprocating that arousal? Are you mad? She purposefully arouses me as often as she can. She just stops short of letting me have an orgasm. This shouldn't come as a surprise, this is chastity Mansion! I thought that you was ok with orgasm denial, just not the tools some of us use to help make it a reality? And as for me lacking self control have you listened to anything I have actually said? The issue was with my Wife, not with me. She stopped having cuddles with me because she was worried that I would want sex. Are you telling me that I am the only guy in existence who had a sulk for a few moments when he realised his boner was unwanted? I didn't say I would sulk for hours, it was literally a little boy response to his favourite toy not being played with.

Actually, with regards to your statement about me lacking self control, screw you. You don't know me, you don't know anything about me. In fact your statement is utterly ridiculous as I prove day in day out how much self control I have as I make no attempt to beat the easy to defeat chastity device that I wear.

And I am sorry but you are very much here to say that one style of relationship is better than another. You just contradicted yourself immediately. After stating that you weren't here to say which way was better you point out that it is your opinion that one way was wrong. You used the word unhealthy but that is implicitly used to mean wrong.

 

[Quercus Jay]

@David.2k
Sometimes wearing a cage and physically being unable to go further can make a wife more at ease about making out, back rubs, and showing affection, not only because it’s caged but because you want to be denied is what makes her feel comfortable enough to really think that it doesn’t need to go further.

Obviously not all women have a problem discussing sex, feel guilt or obligation to perform, or think one behavior means they owe another...but some do. A rational debate with them, explaining what they are feeling is wrong and doesn’t make sense will not help.

Communication 101 refresher course.

Very well said. And very much the way my Wife feels.