Is MaleSub an orientation? What's your earliest submissive memory?

[Giles_English]

(This came up on another thread, but I think it's worthy of its own discussion so here goes.)

Though I agree some people just enjoy kink the way they enjoy blow jobs - nice extra, not essential - I think for those of us drawn to FLRs, it's as near as makes no difference to being an orientation: not a like or preference, but something core to who we are.

Speaking for myself, I was always interested in being dominated and enslaved, and was always drawn to powerful women well before I was conscious of sex. At High School, I orbited around the high dominance girls - to my shame - teasing them just enough to get a kind of delightedly angry reaction to them. And no, I had no idea what I was doing.

Usually, when you ask about early indications of kinkiness, MaleSubs in particular are submissive all the way down.

I collected some links to Reddit threads on my blog. I'll paste them in here:

Interesting Reddit thread that throws context on this. I'm certainly not the only one...
And another thread here: Earliest memories that hint at your tendency towards BDSM sexuality?

And another one: What's the etiology of your interest in Femdom?

And another: When did you realize you were into BDSM?

And another with a nice opening post from a Gay submissive: Where does kink come from?​

However, I'd like to hear your stories, and know whether you regard your submissiveness (or dominance as applicable) as an orientation, or "just" a fetish. Please share...

 

[Nicoftime]

I wouldn’t consider it an orientation since it was more nurture than nature of why I am how I am.

To analyze my specific reasons it probably comes down to a lack of a loving authoritive female figure. She wasn’t someone that showed affection, or cared enough to discipline, and I suppose I needed her approval and tried to please her so she wouldn’t leave me. Fairly classic fear of abandonment and trust issues.

Specific instances...one that shoots out at me is a neighbor girl that was a bit older than I. We were alone and told me to strip. I was frozen, and she told me again sternly and I immediately obeyed. She told me all sorts of embarrassing stuff about it, size, no hair, smallest she’s ever seen...lol she wasn’t that much older she’d probably only saw one other than me! Anyway, the moment struck me, and have really always waited to be told what to do, how far we would go, and would never have considered asking someone to do something. I have never asked for oral or anything in my entire life ...that is until we started chastity and I was so horny I asked her to please let me out.

So I’ve never been assertive enough to communicate, I’ve always waited for someone to tell me or show me what they wanted me to do.

 

[Guest 3729]

Its really a tough call to say if it was more nature or nurture for me. I can't think of any incredibly influential women in my early life that would lead me to becoming a submissive male although I suppose another male could influence your disposition dependent upon age. However even a subtle influence is still an influence. As far back as I can remember when first being interested in women I've had an affinity for strong, tall, intelligent women which consequently describes my Miss. I've always been a good looking guy but struggled with dating in my teen years because I was so shy. I always wanted the girls to make the first move, I used to and still feel out of place making the first move. I think most women around that age 15-20ish don't want or understand a straight submissive male.

My Miss has told me several times over our relationship that she picked me. It was always flattering to hear but I didn't give it a whole lot of thought until we started chastity11 years later. She dated enough dicks in her teen life she new she wanted someone different and I was that different person. We've gotten along famously our entire 14 year relationship but I don't think either of us knew why we worked so well together until we defined our roles with chastity.

 

[LesterBallard]

It isn't an orientation. To be such, in my view, would require MaleSub tendencies and ONLY those tendencies to manifest themselves. I've lived a life outside femdom and continue to do so.

I'm not sure it's a fetish either. It's just a deep-rooted longing. I can't really describe it more than that. It's something I crave.

I don't know or understand where it came from. It has grown over the years and I cannot point to any catalyst.

 

[Giles_English]

CLARIFICATION

It can be "nurture" and still be an orientation, or at least according to some definitions. Sexologist Jesse Berring writes:

I see no rational reason not to regard the paraphilias as their own distinct sexual orientations. They’re notoriously difficult to study, but most scientists believe that paraphilias arise through a process of early childhood “sexual imprinting,” especially in males. The point is that whether it happens in the womb or in the first several years of life, a person’s sexual orientation, whatever it is, isn’t an option that he or she preferred over another. It’s a lens forged upon our brains that sexualizes the world for us in a distinctive way. It just is. There’s no moralizing in this scenario. Zero.

(Source)​

I think the important bit here is:

It’s a lens forged upon our brains that sexualizes the world for us in a distinctive way. It just is.​

So, to me, everybody upthread is describing an orientation, though some are the kink/vanilla equivalent of bi.

 

[Penney]

Its really a tough call to say if it was more nature or nurture for me. I can't think of any incredibly influential women in my early life that would lead me to becoming a submissive male although I suppose another male could influence your disposition dependent upon age. However even a subtle influence is still an influence. As far back as I can remember when first being interested in women I've had an affinity for strong, tall, intelligent women which consequently describes my Miss. I've always been a good looking guy but struggled with dating in my teen years because I was so shy. I always wanted the girls to make the first move, I used to and still feel out of place making the first move. I think most women around that age 15-20ish don't want or understand a straight submissive male.

My Miss has told me several times over our relationship that she picked me. It was always flattering to hear but I didn't give it a whole lot of thought until we started chastity11 years later. She dated enough dicks in her teen life she new she wanted someone different and I was that different person. We've gotten along famously our entire 14 year relationship but I don't think either of us knew why we worked so well together until we defined our roles with chastity.

I had many of the same feelings Wonderwomanssub, I just didn't recognize it as submissive at the time. As a young person I was very shy around women, and I felt unsure asking them out, but I adored them. One of the first submissive experiences I had was when a girlfriend pulled my t-shirt up over my head and covered my eyes with it, then proceeded to completely undress me. When she was done I was completely naked, except for my head, it being wrapped in the t-shirt so I couldn't see. She was still completely dressed. She spent quite a bit of time playing with me. In fact my hand was swatted away when I tried to touch her, and I was told I could not touch her. When I was finally allowed to cum, I came all over the back of my legs. It was the first time I had cum in a submissive way under a woman's control.

Like you, my wife picked me; she actually proposed to me. Then, a month after I met her, on our wedding night, she took charge and took me anally with her fingers to make me cum. I remember asking her about it later, as it was a first for me, but not for her. She said that she wanted me to feel owned by her--I did. Gradually it became clear that I was much happier in the submissive role in the bedroom. Later when she threw out all of my male underwear and required I wear only panties, I was at first nervous, but happy to have found my place. She arranged to have me tattooed with her mark of ownership on our anniversary, and later that day took me with a strapon for the first time. Since then she has since added to that tattoo.

 

[Dannysub]

CLARIFICATION

It can be "nurture" and still be an orientation, or at least according to some definitions....
...
though some are the kink/vanilla equivalent of bi.

I think it is difficult to speculate, to which extent it is nature, and to which it is nurture, but what I know in my case it is something really deeply ingrained. And I don't think I'm the only one. I had also an idea come up to my mind, that we may have a predisposition for such things (personality traits, orientation etc.) and then depending on our environment it will be triggered or not. In my case, I never had an exhaustive list of what may have contributed nurture wise and probably never will, but a couple of things spring to mind: being in not very good health as a child, I was very closely attached to my mother (->my need of close emotional connection in a relationship); as I grew bigger I have been babysitted by an aunt (that was not very much older than me btw) who, while a very good person went easily on punishing should I piss her off (->masochism); generally speaking, I grew up surrounded by women, who were ruling in the house, father was not very much present (early divorce).

As for other memories, it indeed started very early ; I remember being fascinated by girls since probably age 5-6 (difficult to remember anything earlier).
As a kid I also have been provoking them which resulted in anger and fights. Probably it was a way to attract attention, since they would not notice me that much had I remained fascinated in my corner.
I also have been obsessing about some of them (well, one at a time and in different periods). Actually, what I noticed already as an adult, is that this "provoking them" things had carried on in my relationships, so I have been working in recent years to tame this trait of mine somehow, because it was not (well, not always) doing me good.

I also totally agree on the "bi kink/non kink" thing. Kink is great, although not a necessary condition for me to be happy

 

[SubSnuggler]

I was always fascinated by the 'bad girl'. The one that had a fast car, or smoked (a fetish of mine for a while), or just partied really hard. Girls that took or enjoyed exactly what they wanted, without concern for the optics. Confident, strong girls.

Couple that with a love of letting go, in terms of letting someone else take the reigns and letting me enable/support their success...

A sub male is born.

 

[Guest 2802]

My story is definitely different from the others expressed her so far. As (what I believe to be) a normal young boy, I masturbated quite regularly from a very young age -- I can remember doing it at age 3 due to the house we were in. For many years, it was just something I did and I didn't really think too much about it.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I grew up in the Bible Belt and religion was everywhere. Specifically, I was told very young that lusting after women and masturbation (e.g. "wasting one's seed") was "a sin against God." That created a terrible conflict in me. The biological urge to masturbate was incredibly strong and the guilt, shame, and self-hate that came afterwards was equally as strong. I still have great anger over what the adult leaders in my community did to a child like me with their "preaching."

As a young child through my early adulthood, I struggled with the conflict between my desire for sexual release and my guilt. As a result, I developed a fantasy which helped me satisfy my physical needs though it did little to assuage the ensuing guilt. Whenever the desire to masturbate overcame my will to obey God, I would fantasize that an older, authoritative woman was tying me up and making me have sex with a girl my own age or doing this or that to me. Later, I started to link that personal fantasy with the likes of Catwoman, who would often tie up Batman or put him under a potion and make him do things.

I also had an older sister and cousin, who I vaguely remember tied me up (or pinned me down) once, again at a very early age (under 3). However, that memory is so vague that I don't know if it is real. So, I would say my earliest submissive fantasy/memory is from around age 5 or so.

 

[the glove]

as a grade school boy a girl in my class tried to tie my hands together I fought like a bandit and got loose but it still made me excited

 

[Giles_English]

Thanks! Keep them coming! (All sounding very orientation-like to me...)

 

[El Guapo]

College.
I have come to believe that the Mistress that encouraged me into submission recognized me as a likely candidate. She was correct because I took right to it.

It started as a fetish ... for me anyway.
I also believe that Mistress Robin had an agenda.
I always figured that I must have been a Pavlovian Experiment for her to some degree.
Deep down though I believe she was trying to educate males, not control them for a power trip.
She genuinely cared & enlightened those who believed in what she believed.
Over time it became a way of life.

We split after college.
I took my learning to my marriage.
My wife of 25 years treasures my approach towards women.

 

[Giles_English]

College.
I have come to believe that the Mistress that encouraged me into submission recognized me as a likely candidate. She was correct because I took right to it.

It started as a fetish ... for me anyway.
I also believe that Mistress Robin had an agenda.
I always figured that I must have been a Pavlovian Experiment for her to some degree.
Deep down though I believe she was trying to educate males, not control them for a power trip.
She genuinely cared & enlightened those who believed in what she believed.
Over time it became a way of life.

We split after college.
I took my learning to my marriage.
My wife of 25 years treasures my approach towards women.

Tell us more about Mistress Robin. Where did you find her?

 

[Maid Denise]

(This came up on another thread, but I think it's worthy of its own discussion so here goes.)

Though I agree some people just enjoy kink the way they enjoy blow jobs - nice extra, not essential - I think for those of us drawn to FLRs, it's as near as makes no difference to being an orientation: not a like or preference, but something core to who we are.

Speaking for myself, I was always interested in being dominated and enslaved, and was always drawn to powerful women well before I was conscious of sex. At High School, I orbited around the high dominance girls - to my shame - teasing them just enough to get a kind of delightedly angry reaction to them. And no, I had no idea what I was doing.

Usually, when you ask about early indications of kinkiness, MaleSubs in particular are submissive all the way down.

I collected some links to Reddit threads on my blog. I'll paste them in here:

Interesting Reddit thread that throws context on this. I'm certainly not the only one...
And another thread here: Earliest memories that hint at your tendency towards BDSM sexuality?

And another one: What's the etiology of your interest in Femdom?

And another: When did you realize you were into BDSM?

And another with a nice opening post from a Gay submissive: Where does kink come from?​

However, I'd like to hear your stories, and know whether you regard your submissiveness (or dominance as applicable) as an orientation, or "just" a fetish. Please share...

I am not sure if my submissiveness is an orientation or just the way I am. The first time I knew I wanted this life style was when i was a teen and saw my first BD/SM video (femdon). It took most of my life to find the woman who loves me and is in total control and understands what I need to be happy in are FLM.
Hope i answered your question.

 

[El Guapo]

@Giles_English
mR and I chanced upon each other while at college in New England.
Tough to describe the dynamics without writing a novel - but here goes my attempt at a short story.

Coming of age sexually was not what I envisioned.
High school & early college was fumbling around with what I thought it was 'supposed to be'.
It was fun but not satisfying.

Year three (of 6) had an event at a baseball game that was metaphorical of Tony & Maria in the musical West Side Story. Our glances met occasionally and after a few times the hook was embedded.

A few days later at another ball game, I saw her again - this time I acknowledged to myself I had to find out more about this black woman who piqued my curiosity with just a gaze. It was not comfortable for me to approach women - but I did. We exchanged contact information.

She waited for me to call. And when I did, I suppose she knew she could reel me in. We had supper together a few times, went to a few ballgames - just politely getting to know each other. While she introduced herself as a Mistress, there was nothing physical.

As it became clear that the attraction was growing - she started to outline the dynamics of how a relationship with her would be - she had rules that I would have to follow - it would be her way or the highway. By then she must have known I was totally hooked.

The closest I can make an analogy to is the Annie character in Bull Durham. [hint: its a great movie & worth watching if you have never seen it.]

mR introduced me to the world of TND, OD.
She took my underwear and gave me panties to wear.
She insisted I wait until she gave me permission to O.
Servitude was introduced and I took on all the 'chores'.
She taught me how a woman thinks & helped me to think like one.
Through 'conditioning', She taught me to have manners & discipline.
She enlightened me about FLR - and the imbalance of Matriarchal to Patriarchal.

This is was what was missing in my life. Mistress Robin brought a world of color to what previously had been drab relationships. After graduation we gradually drifted apart over the years.

What mR taught me remained with me.
I brought manners, discipline, TND, OD, FLR, panties & servitude to my future relationships.
And for that, I will always be grateful for her patient enlightenment & education.

 

[Giles_English]

@Giles_English
mR and I chanced upon each other while at college in New England.
Tough to describe the dynamics without writing a novel - but here goes my attempt at a short story.

Coming of age sexually was not what I envisioned.
High school & early college was fumbling around with what I thought it was 'supposed to be'.
It was fun but not satisfying.

Year three (of 6) had an event at a baseball game that was metaphorical of Tony & Maria in the musical West Side Story. Our glances met occasionally and after a few times the hook was embedded.

A few days later at another ball game, I saw her again - this time I acknowledged to myself I had to find out more about this black woman who piqued my curiosity with just a gaze. It was not comfortable for me to approach women - but I did. We exchanged contact information.

She waited for me to call. And when I did, I suppose she knew she could reel me in. We had supper together a few times, went to a few ballgames - just politely getting to know each other. While she introduced herself as a Mistress, there was nothing physical.

As it became clear that the attraction was growing - she started to outline the dynamics of how a relationship with her would be - she had rules that I would have to follow - it would be her way or the highway. By then she must have known I was totally hooked.

The closest I can make an analogy to is the Annie character in Bull Durham. [hint: its a great movie & worth watching if you have never seen it.]

mR introduced me to the world of TND, OD.
She took my underwear and gave me panties to wear.
She insisted I wait until she gave me permission to O.
Servitude was introduced and I took on all the 'chores'.
She taught me how a woman thinks & helped me to think like one.
Through 'conditioning', She taught me to have manners & discipline.
She enlightened me about FLR - and the imbalance of Matriarchal to Patriarchal.

This is was what was missing in my life. Mistress Robin brought a world of color to what previously had been drab relationships. After graduation we gradually drifted apart over the years.

What mR taught me remained with me.
I brought manners, discipline, TND, OD, FLR, panties & servitude to my future relationships.
And for that, I will always be grateful for her patient enlightenment & education.

What was her background? How did she come to her role?

 

[El Guapo]

@Giles_English
Condensing this from many discussions:

Background ...
mR was a product of the New England lower-middle-class (like me).
Being black & female, grew up being shown some prejudice (not like me).

Not sure 'how' she came to the role ...
I always figured she did what she did because it was how she felt she could help swing the pendulum towards the Matriarchal. A popular slogan at the time was "Think Globally. Act Locally.". To me that was her approach - change a few willing males at a time. Kind of a 'pay-it-forward' investment.

Some elaboration ...
We both viewed society as having an imbalance of male vs female energy. Of course she felt more strongly about it but recognized that latency in me & helped me develop it.

For me (and probably most of the guys,) it was the kink part drew me (us) in ... but it was the end result she stayed focused on & worked towards. Not all the guys stuck around.

There are several ladies (and guys) here at CM that are dedicated to helping those who are willing to learn a better approach to life & relationships. I have only been at CM 1 year and am developing friendships with a few of them. I am happy to learn new perspectives from whomever is willing to teach.

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

 

[dearelliot]

I went to a brothel in Berlin in the 50s, and was in the room naked when the woman walked in, she had a riding cfrop in her hand, to put into the drawer, maybe. I was naked and my cock stood up so hard, the woman looked and said, "Oh look how he stands for the whip!" then she touched the cock with it, and moved it back and forth and I came.
I was maybe 20 and that was a start but it took a long while for me to really just concentrate on BDSM, maybe because it was seldom available as opposed to plain ol pussy