Does God exist

Discussion in 'Off topic discussions' started by Jay Sub, Oct 27, 2023.

?

Where do you sit on the scale? Votes are anonymous, though please do explain

  1. 1. Strong theist. 100% probability of God

    20 vote(s)
    35.1%
  2. 2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100%

    3 vote(s)
    5.3%
  3. 3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50% but not very high

    4 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. 4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50%

    2 vote(s)
    3.5%
  5. 5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero

    2 vote(s)
    3.5%
  7. 6.9 Is this more accurate to you.

    4 vote(s)
    7.0%
  8. 7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God"

    22 vote(s)
    38.6%
  1. Tricky-
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    Tricky- Active member

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    Yeah i mean most of the serial killers aren't even discovered lol. Incarnation doesn't exist if it actually did then it would have been common. I mean what will be after death for them nothing just like you guys believe that no god exist. You can't prove something where we don't have the knowledge. What happened before big bang? What happens after death if don't believe in god? Nothing?
     
  2. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    There is no evidence of anything after death. I have already explained that we don't know before the big bang. "I don't know" is a valid answer. "God did it" is not.
     
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  3. atxmtb
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    atxmtb Long term member

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    Yes, but "God may have done it" is also a good answer. "God didn't do it", or "There is not God" is not.
     
  4. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    I disagree.

    "It is unlikely that God did it" is where the evidence leads and is probably the most likely answer in my opinion.
     
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  5. atxmtb
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    atxmtb Long term member

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    I do not believe you have that evidence. I am glad you are not on my jury. Regardless, it is your journey.
     
  6. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    You have not demonstrated any evidence for the existence of any gods. Why should it be up to the athiest to disprove something that by definition requires faith (belief without evidence)?

    Should I prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist, or fairies, or Ganesh, Zeus, Odin... the list goes on.... and you can see how ridiculous that would be.
     
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  7. atxmtb
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    atxmtb Long term member

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    You miss my point. I'm not asking you to believe. You've admitted that there are a ton of unknowns. To me, that means it's silly to conclude.

    And besides, I do believe in Santa Claus. I really do. Probably not the same way you are thinking, but Santa is most definitely real.
     
  8. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    I agree it is wrong to conclude. I talk about likelihood and probability. So I don't think I missed the point. You did by ignoring all the other gods or mythical creatures you do not believe in, and proposing some weird unique Santa theory, that once again you will show no evidence for, though I am fascinated to hear it.

    Hey everyone @atxmtb is about to save Christmas! Our own Chastity Mansion Christmas miracle.
     
  9. Mr_anonymous
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    Mr_anonymous Long term member

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    So you watch porn and wear a sex toy but proselytize the virtues of god. That's not backwards or hypocritical at all
     
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  10. atxmtb
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    You assume that "exists" means something exists in the physical world and not in some spiritual and emotional space. You are pretty limited with that way of thinking. So much good has been done in the spirit of Christmas. Although Christmas marks the birth of the Christian "son of God", in the secular world, Christmas is a time of joy, forgiveness, hope, love, and a ton of other things. Santa delivers those messages to a vast number of people every year. Santa can and does bring me to tears. You can mock, but that mocking illuminates a very lonely place.
     
  11. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    Hey everyone @atxmtb is about to save Christmas.
    No I don't mock. I can be as moved by a Christmas movie as anyone. But when we were talking about existence we all knew the parameters. OK now you want to redefine reality. Go ahead.
     
  12. atxmtb
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    I didn't bring up the word "reality". The word was "exists". Which the Cambridge Dictionary defines as:

    So, when I say Santa "exists", I'm correct. Santa has the ability to be known, recognized, and understood.
     
  13. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    Define known. In this context known would suggest a personal relationship with. Which is what many believers claim about gods. We can, without getting into semantics, only say that something actually exists if we can use our senses to detect it. For instance everyone at the party knew there were sausage rolls on a plate on a table, nobody was using faith to come to that conclusion, and we can be confident that those sausage rolls existed.
     
  14. atxmtb
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    Have fun.
     
  15. bondinchas
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    bondinchas Long term member

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    I agree with all those thoughts (apart from there being an afterlife, that's so improbable I disregard it as a possibility). I also believe that there absolutely no need to believe in a god or follow a religion to lead a good life. So, I live life that way.
     
  16. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    By your definition if it brings joy etc. Then it exists. I get the joy and have a very fulfilling life thank you. I just don't call that spirit, energy, camaraderie, fun god.
     
  17. M@rcellus
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    M@rcellus Long term member

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    The bbc whom I'm legally obliged to fund for having my ps5 screen is supposed to be asking questions on my behalf.
    1. Did you you vote for them?
    2. What did you expect to happen?
    They're open questions and I would appreciate open answers to them.
     
  18. M@rcellus
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    M@rcellus Long term member

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    Delete open answers. I would never put conditions on a question I asked.
     
  19. cj0434
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    One thing that is often not considered is to remember that while God is in charge he’s not in control. If he was there would be no murder, suffering, or free choice.
     
  20. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    Can you demonstrate how he couldn't be in control, or isn't. He is omnipotent afterall and could do something. In fact people claim he does. My point is that he is selective and only deals with small problems like where are your keys.
     
  21. atxmtb
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    atxmtb Long term member

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    You still miss the point. God gave us free will. He may be omnipotent but not every text claims that. It is more that he is the creator. The clock maker per se.
    God put the tree there and he gave us the ability to discern good from evil. With that discernment is the right to make bad choices. There are also so many examples in the bible, too numerous to bother disputing your statements. We've got Moses, Noah, Jonah, New Testament, Old Testament. No where in any of it is ever the statement that God will stop evil in its tracks. God is there to help. But evil exists. It always has. Using the fact that evil exists therefore God doesn't is just a leap too far.
     
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  22. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    What the bible says is not relevant. In this case.
     
  23. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    I agree, if there is evil it is only there because a god created it, therefore the existence of evil in this universe is proof that god exists.

    God created man in his image, and man can be evil, so god created evil in his image. All evil exists because god created it. Therefore god must evil. Further, if evil exists then then god must enjoy it, since he has the power to change it.

    God told us how to worship him and what to do and not to do, god only exists because people continue to do what he said, how he said it. If everyone just forgot about god and stopped being such little bitches, then god cease to exist.
     
  24. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub "Smaller is better"

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    Evil proves that evil exists, or that people do bad things. It is not relevant to whether any gods exist. Atheists separate morality from religion as it has no necessary connection, and the inverse can be shown to be true, that in fact more secular societies have lower crime rates, and the ratio of Christians/Atheists in prisons shows a correlation clearly showing Atheists are less likely to commit crime.
     
  25. atxmtb
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    atxmtb Long term member

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    Well, I think you would have to show studies rather than throw something like that out there with no backup. I highly doubt there is a negative correlation. What you are probably seeing is that western societies have high crime rates. Maybe there are indigenous tribes that are not theistic, and have low crime, but that is not scientific. There are a million of other factors at work than whether the society is based on religious principals or not.

    But let's play with your hypothesis a bit. Say societies that believe in God exhibit more crime. What that may be saying is that the devil likes to play in the same sphere that God does. You may say, that proves your point. But does it. In this simple exercise, you are measuring crime (or evil), you are not measuring good. You might rejoin, well, what good is good if it invites evil. That's a totally different discussion.

    My point is, it's not as simple as you state.
     
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